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Subject:
From:
Ron Hoggan <[log in to unmask]>
Reply To:
Paleolithic Eating Support List <[log in to unmask]>
Date:
Sun, 31 May 2009 13:04:12 -0700
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Geoff wrote: 
> 
> Re plants in winter:- The claim that plants formed only a tiny proportion
> of the caloric intake throughout the year, would presumably not apply
> during summer. 
[Ron] Sorry. I should have mentioned that, but the summers are very short,
depending on where you are in the Arctic. I worked on the south shore of the
Great Slave Lake one summer and puddles were freezing at night by mid
August. The weather would warm up substantially through the day but I would
characterize the weather as fall weather. 
   
> Plus, Arctic tribes would routinely eat the fermented
> stomach-contents of animals they killed, which contained plant-matter(the
> herbivores, at least).
[Ron] Yes. I've heard that, but that would form a tiny portion of their
diet.  

> If one looks at hotter regions, then the carb-
> levels become much higher(eg:- the Kitavans  with their 69% carb diet).

[Ron] Lindeberg repeatedly conceded that they were an early Neolithic
agricultural society.  

> And even during the Ice-Age, conditions would only have been truly Arctic
> in certain parts of the world like Western Europe.
> 
> 
> 
> Re ketogenic diets/epilepsy:- There are some unfortunate side-effects with
> ketogenic diets. Here's an example or two:-
> 
> 
> 
> "Reported side effects include dehydration, constipation, and, sometimes,
> complications from kidney stones or gall stones.


[Ron] I have followed a ketogenic diet in two separate personal trials of
several months where I kept my fats to about 70% of my diet. I lost a little
weight, but I had more energy, my breathing improved, and I was generally
healthier - just like Anderson and Stefansson.  

I did have to drink more water but saw no sign of these other side effects.
I am skeptical when I read about kidney stones and gall stones in
association with the diet (here and elsewhere) because these are conditions
that are common in SAD but were absent from any reports of primitive diets
from on-the-scene observers. As for modern applications of the diet, they
are frequently too low in fats and too high in proteins.   

> 
> Adult women on the diet may have menstrual irregularities. Pancreatitis
> (inflammation of the pancreas), decreased bone density and certain eye
> problems have also been reported. Again, this is why the medical team
> closely follows children or adults who are on the diet.


[Ron] Either intractable epileptic seizures or deadly cancers reduce the
specter of these side effects to a more acceptable level.   

> 
> The diet lacks several important vitamins which have to be added through
> supplements. 

[Ron] There is some debate on this point.
 
> Sometimes high levels of fat build up in the blood,
> especially if a child has an inborn defect in his ability to process fat.

[Ron] Agreed.  

> This possibility can lead to serious effects, which is another reason for
> careful monitoring." taken from:-
> 
> 
> 
> http://www.epilepsyfoundation.org/about/treatment/ketogenicdiet/
> 
[Ron] The politics that drive what such organizations must say in order to
survive have, I'm sure, contributed to their statements. It is not very long
ago that physicians could threaten to have a child taken from her/his
parents if the parents undertook a ketogenic diet in preference to very
dangerous and maiming brain surgery. (There was a movie about this ten or so
years ago.)   

Similarly, I am forever being told of the unpalatability and impossibility
of a strict gluten free diet, by well qualified,  highly regarded,
well-meaning gastrointestinal specialists, yet I  have been very strictly
gluten-free for more than 15 years and I find it a minor inconvenience.
Biases drive both sides of the argument. Thus, methinks the Epilepsy
Foundation doth protest too much.  

> 
> 
> "
> 
> The most common, almost "expected", side effects of the diet are
> constipation, acidosis (especially with illness), and decreased weight
> gain (not often weight loss). These are often addressed immediately when
> the diet is started, especially using MiralaxT for constipation. The less
> common side effects, generally occurring in 1 in 20 children, include high
> cholesterol, kidney stones, growth slowing, and gastrointestinal upset. "
> taken from:-
> 
> 
> 
> http://www.epilepsy.com/epilepsy/keto_news_november07
> 
> 
> 
> The big problem with the ketogenic diet seems to be that they particularly
> love including (pasteurised)dairy. I can't imagine that dairy can possibly
> be good for epileptics. 
> 
> 
> 
> Re rabbit-starvation:- I wholeheartedly believe in the phenomenon of
> rabbit-starvation. I  don't think it's a problem if one is eating a very
> small amount of carbs(I'm, usually,  a raw low-carber with c.10%(?) of
> diet being in the form of raw carbs).

[Ron] I agree. 

  My only point is to suggest that
> the 80%-fat-figure of total dietary calories for fat seems far too high
> just to avoid the possibility of rabbit-starvation. 
[Ron] I agree. 
Maybe something as low
> as 30-60% of fat by calorie is still fine? Certainly 60%, I should think.

[Ron] That is, I think, the very bias that causes so many "side effects" in
pseudo-ketogenic diets. 

> 
Best Wishes, 
Ron

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