Re enzymes/bacteria comments:- You're missing the point. Just eating a SAD diet(or any diet whether it includes grains or dairy or whatever) cannot , in and of itself, satisfactorily explain why people so often need to take bacteria supplements or enzyme supplements. The fact that so many of these cooked-dieters benefit from those bacteria or enzyme supplements and need them indicates very strongly that their bodies can no longer supply them properly with sufficient bacteria or enzymes. Now, raw foods do contain enzymes and they also contain much higher levels of bacteria so all the various hunter-gatherer tribes,(such as those in the Palaeolithic), which went in(if only to some extent) for (enzyme-rich raw and bacteria-rich) raw foods never had the need for supplements(as referred to by Weston Price etc.).
However, all those enzyme-pill/bacteria-pill-popping people you mention(whether they are grain-eaters/SAD-dieters/atkins-diet-eaters etc.) all have 1 thing in common with each other - they all eat diets very high in bacteria-deficient/enzyme-deficient cooked/processed foods, which makes it far more likely that it is the cooked aspect of those diets which is the problem, not grains or dairy or whatever.
(more on this in reply to other person's(todd's?) post)
re bacteria article:- I quite agree that most bacteria are destroyed when going through the digestive system, although raw food, especially aged raw food, will inevitably have more bacteria-content, so that more bacteria will thereby get through if raw food is consumed.
We do need bacteria in our guts and when there is an imbalance of bacteria(due to ingestion of the wrong foods, ill-health of some kind etc.) , a cooked diet practically deficient in bacteria
Geoff
> Date: Fri, 29 May 2009 09:17:15 -0400
> From: [log in to unmask]
> Subject: Re: enzyme loss in boiling meat?
> To: [log in to unmask]
>
> Geoffrey Purcell wrote:
> > That's the trouble with a cooked-food diet. It involves the human body having to make an extra effort to produce enzymes all on its own in order to digest the unhealthy cooked-foods it consumes. The result is that a very large number of older people are therefore forced to take additional enzyme supplements to make up for the fact that their own body's enzyme-producing capabilities have become seriously compromised...[snip]. Needless to say, many followers of cooked-diets often have to
> > eventually take extra bacterial supplements(less effective than
> > bacteria-rich raw foods, IMO) in order to cope with their wrecked
> > digestive systems, after being decades on such processed,
> > bacteria-deficient diets.
>
> You don't mention any studies here, but I'll assume you've read some.
> These older people, or cooked-diet people - what were they eating? Were
> they consuming grains? Dairy? What? How was it determined that whatever
> wrecked their guts was due to 1) lack of enzymes as a result of eating
> cooked foods 2) deficiency of bacteria due to lack of raw and/or
> fermented foods? If they were eating a regular mixed diet (ie: SAD),
> could that in itself not result in a compromised gut, regardless?
>
> Something to think about:
> Gastroenterology 2003 Jan;124(1):275. El Asmar Rahzi [corrected to El
> Asmar Ramzi].
> Host-dependent zonulin secretion causes the impairment of the small
> intestine barrier function after bacterial exposure.El Asmar R,
> Panigrahi P, Bamford P, Berti I, Not T, Coppa GV, Catassi C, Fasano A.
> Department of Pediatrics and Center for Vaccine Development, University
> of Maryland School of Medicine, Baltimore, Maryland 21201, USA.
>
> BACKGROUND & AIMS: Enteric infections have been implicated in the
> pathogenesis of both food intolerance and autoimmune diseases secondary
> to the impairment of the intestinal barrier. On the basis of our recent
> discovery of zonulin, a modulator of small-intestinal tight junctions,
> we asked whether microorganisms might induce zonulin secretion and
> increased small-intestinal permeability.
>
> METHODS: Both ex vivo mammalian small intestines and intestinal cell
> monolayers were exposed to either pathogenic or *nonpathogenic*
> enterobacteria. Zonulin production and changes in paracellular
> permeability were monitored in Ussing chambers and micro-snapwells.
> Zonula occludens 1 protein redistribution after bacteria colonization
> was evaluated on cell monolayers.
>
> RESULTS: Small intestines exposed to enteric bacteria secreted zonulin.
> This secretion was independent of either the species of the small
> intestines or the virulence of the microorganisms tested, occurred only
> on the luminal aspect of the bacteria-exposed small-intestinal mucosa,
> and was followed by a decrease in small-intestinal tissue resistance
> (transepithelial electrical resistance). The transepithelial electrical
> resistance decrement was secondary to the zonulin-induced tight junction
> disassembly, as also shown by the disengagement of the protein zonula
> occludens 1 protein from the tight junctional complex.
>
> CONCLUSIONS: This zonulin-driven opening of the paracellular pathway
> may represent a defensive mechanism, which flushes out microorganisms
> and contributes to the host response against bacterial colonization of
> the small intestine.
>
> >
> > Geoff
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >> Date: Thu, 28 May 2009 13:45:04 -0400
> >> From: [log in to unmask]
> >> Subject: Re: enzyme loss in boiling meat?
> >> To: [log in to unmask]
> >>
> >> Eating digestive enzymes may be great (to aid in digestion), but any other
> >> enzymes are unlikely to make it through the gut undigested (and hence
> >> denatured) and into the blood. How many digestive enzymes do you really
> >> think you'll find in raw meat? If there were such enzymes in the flesh of
> >> an animal wouldn't they break down the animal's muscle tissue during life?
> >>
> >> The list of enzymes in wikipedia sounds great, but taking almost any of them
> >> (any but the ones that are active in the stomach) should be no more
> >> beneficial than taking an equivalent amount of any other protein. Taking
> >> great pains to "preserve" such enzymes in food just so that they can be
> >> digested in the gut seems like a waste of energy.
> >>
> >> On Thu, May 28, 2009 at 1:02 PM, Geoffrey Purcell
> >> <[log in to unmask]>wrote:
> >>
> >>
> >>> There are, indeed, enzymes in raw foods, but no enzymes in cooked foods,
> >>> due to the excess heat destorying them.
> >>>
> >>> This gives an idea of the various classes of different enzymes that exist:-
> >>>
> >>> http://www.healthboosters.com/archive/digestive_enzymes.htm
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_enzymes
> >>>
> >>> re enzymes/hot weather in other post:- Like I said, enzymes only start
> >>> getting
> >>> damaged at c.40 degrees celcius, and completely destroyed at c.60 degrees
> >>> celsius. So, on most hot days, enzymes would be unaffected.
> >>>
> >>> Geoff
> >>>
> >>>
> >>
> >> --
> >> Visit my Training blog:
> >> http://karateconditioning.supersized.org
> >>
> >
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