On Wed, 14 Nov 2001 09:51:32 -0700, Dori Zook <[log in to unmask]> wrote:

>Therein lies the rub.  You stated clearly that thiamin is added; do you
>mean
>b-vitamins are artificially added, as well?

Yes.
Thiamin *is* vitamin B(1).
It's the most damageable vitamin ( by heat, leaching, antivitamins) with the
smallest reservoirs in the body (19 days) and generally low in supply in
standard western diets.

The vitamins are not added everywhere.
UDSA Rice (US rice probably) has 2.2mg B1 per kg carbohydrate,
while my german analysis of white rice shows only 0.7.
My requirement tables indicate a requirement of approx.
2.5 (mg thiamin per kg carbohydrate).
The US vitaminisation is right and approximately the required amount.

Full integral rice (=brown?) is by far the best with the double amount
(ratio 5.5).

> Even if only one of the above
>is added, it shows rice isn't the nutritional Nirvana some people say it
>is.
>  Meat, on the other hand, is (both in my opinion and factually speaking).

Meat is Nirvana?
Meat enables you to derive most food energy from fat (like nuts, btw).
Because meat delivers the protein necessary to complement zero protein fat.

But only most. You still have left somewhat 500kcal per day which are
mandatory to come from glucose (for the brain etc).
You have 2 options to get it:
1.You can choose to eat that 500-700 kcal from right (paleo-) carbohydrates,
that means from tubers, fruit, or whole seeds - (nuts or grains).
2.You can choose a ketogenic diet. This reduces the requirement
to 2-300 kcal.
These have to come from downgraded protein (requires *very* much)
plus from the carb minimum you may eat in maintaining ketosis.

If you have to avoid whole grains at any cost,
and can't think of paleo carb sources,
then of course meat/fat substitution is a very nice Nirvana.
Provided, the meat+fat sources you have, bring less problems for you
that the alternatives you might have.

>Although it's always seemed to me that if you had to eat a grain, there are
>many that are better than wheat, especially bleached, stripped, processed
>"wheat," brown rice being one of them.

Processed wheat and other extractions are the culprits for a lot of
problems. Maybe of *all* the problems that make people eat
neander Ray-Audette stylish.
An ordinary early neolithic (like megalithics) with enough
wild sources of vitamin C and A to accompany the barley/lentil
staples needs not to go back to hunterish.
At least, they didn't.

Today the big challenge for the standard western diets still is to have
enough such wild-like sources, plus to know how to eat neolithic staples.
Or back to full paleo, however you imagine it has been
(the challenge of this list).

regards,
Amadeus