On Sat, 11 Nov 2000 08:21:54 MST, Dori Zook <[log in to unmask]> wrote:

>Amadeus wrote...
>
>>>Fortunately (for neolithic cultures) or by accident cereals and legumes

>Are we forgetting all the problems with legumes and cereals, Amadeus?

Dori, i said it was fortunate for the old neolithic cultures. This shouldn't
imply any further suggestion to emulate neolithic cultures *here on the
list*. Paleolithic is the topic, so i wont' come up with it.
I personally did try old neolithic eating about 10 years ago, and have quit
eating spelt (which was my staple) for sake of testing what happens.
I did have a very good time with it and in some aspects i still miss it and
will once decide if oldneolithic or (old)paleolithic will be best for me.

We had intense discussions on the problems of grains and legumes
(better on wheat or cereals and beans).
I can see a problem with them - in theory - I've never experienced any
problem myself.
At least it was the reason for me to change my diet.
I'm still waiting for some advantage to happen.
Thanks god I am not diseased with rheumatoid athritis and diabetes like Ray
Audette was (or is).

Peacefully (and more agreeing) i comment some of your items.

>Lectins, found in grains and legumes, play a
>pivotal role in rheumatoid arthritis.

It seems probable to me, that the problem (inrheumatoid diseases) are imune
reactions to proteins, which enter bloodstream erraneously (as result of a
malfunction like "leaky gut"). Any protein will cause allergies then.
The most frequent found food protein causes the most allergies.
This is in western worlds, wheat(ordinary) and milk (hard to find a SAD meal
without it).
It may be other proteins to, like i am allergic to one kind of meat.

>  Legumes and cereals are high in
>carbohydrates, a problem for at least a signifigant number of people on
>this list, if not a small minority.

I think it is right to suspect many of the western world of having
carbohydrate problems.
However this is disease oriented.
Thinking historically, it looks that the human animal like any primate and
most mammals *is* designed to live heavily on carbohydrates for energy.
And this applies to all times after mammals grew bigger than a tiny mouse.
Many millions of years in rainwood. As well as any savannah time.

I think carbohydrate *shouldn't* be a problem, but they are for many.
Trying to isolate the culprits, all probability directs me to *isolated*
carbohydrate (like sugar). With missing energy vitamin.

>Even some USDA (or FDA, I forget which) have come out against soy, a
>legume,
>because the risks outweigh the benefits.
Soy, i am not thinking about, since i am allergic to it.
I don't think it's usefull to point out one specific item for any
conclusions on, say legumes.

> Plant proteins are a poor choice
>compared to animal proteins.

I think they have advantages as well as drawbacks.
Advandage is easy digestibility and less complex structure.
Disadvandage is that they usually come bundled with antinutrients.

> Don't even get me started on potatoes.
The point against potatoe is a little weak i think.
It's merely their antinutrient (solanin) which obviously is easy to cope
with for most. On the other hand it's a tuber, which were available year
round in savannahs.

Amadeus