On Thu, 8 Nov 2001 22:18:03 -0500, Hilary McClure <[log in to unmask]>
wrote:

>> Who in the middle ages was fat? Richard Lionheart? Any peasant?
>> Vikings? Germans? Celts? Egyptians?
>>
>King Henry the Eighth of England? Sir John Falstaff? Charles the Fat of
>Germany (881 A.D.)? Louis the Fat of France (circa 1100)? Humbert II the
>Fat of Savoy (circa 1100)? Friar Tuck of Robin Hood's men? I think there
>may have been plenty of fat people in the Middle Ages, and before that.
>Emperor Constantine? Other Romans?

Well, that shape of Friar Tuck seems to be a hollywood outline.
But seriously. It should be hard to become fat without a supply of isolated
energy or maybe a disease. Disease may be diabetes - that can be found  in
older ages as well, but *very* seldom, compared to our 5-8 percent of the
population.
The isolated calories are refined flours and pure fat.
Both was available in the old ages, but very rare.
Wild game is lean and medievial cattle is rather lean.
Refined flours were made even in celtic times (500BC) by sieves.
But it was wastefull and not so plenty.
Some kings like those you mentioned may have gotten enough of it  to become
fat.

My point is: 99% of all the people after 3000BC to 1700AD had a diet of very
predominating grains (more than 80 or 90%). Almost only whole grain.
And there were so few fat people.
Much of the times were hard (low food), but a lot of times were with plenty
of food.
People just stopped to eat, when it was enough.

I think that that is mainly because enough energy with whole foods brought
enough of all the other necessary stuff to enable a stop.
Enough protein, B-Vitamins, other vitamins.

>Venus of Willendorf?

Among hunters and gatherers:
If someone (like the Venus) was *able* to eat herself fat, it was a sign of
extreme success, wellbeeing, richness.
*that* is attractive.
I think i was hard to become like that, anyway.

>I think it's easy
>to get fat on whole grains.

Do you know someone?
I mean *only*, without the refined items?

>A whole grain food still causes an insulin
>spike which makes you store away the fat, store blood sugar as fat, and
>not release fat from fat cells for energy use.

If you look at the glycemic index lists, and even more the insulin score
you find that the original grains (rye spelt oats barley einkorn emmer)
aren't so bad.
(See http://venus.nildram.co.uk/veganmc/insulin.htm for example).
They have nearly all of their energy as carbohydrate, that's true.
So insulin is necessary to metabolize it for else than brain use.

Insulin at first hand triggers the carbohydrate usage by muscles and all
body needs. Then, secondly long time storage as fat.
The key point is, why is so much left over to the not-very-useful
fat storage and no few used.
I think that is related to refining.
One thing is shure. Sugar and white flou *can* only take the second pathway,
because the first (use) pathway is blocked by absence of B vitamins).

regards

Amadeus