On Wed, 12 Jul 2000 16:27:48 -0400, matesz <[log in to unmask]> wrote:
about:

>Teeth:
>Blood:
>Eyes:
(btw. you forgot to mention the important function that vitamin A has
in the imune system)

If you read a text about a lack of any vitamin, you'll really be alarmed
about the desatrous effects any shortcomeings have.
As vitamins are *really* essential, what happens if they are missing or
even low in supply is essentially a onset of death.

I think vitamins - and the other essentials are really worth to think about
and for me, they form a basic POV on nutrition - also paleonutrition.
And there are vitmins with long and with short storage capacities.
Those with a short storage time have a even more urgent demand of
a constant supply.

You are posting this Vitamin A infos probably,
because you are suggesting that vitamin A synthetisation capacity from the
pre-Vitamins (carotenes) is too low for vegans to survive.
However for *this* claim I'm still missing any references, except that one
study of a isolated situation cited by Cordain, and despite the successful
survival of many vegans > 6 months without becomeing blind.

Btw. also those on a neanderthin meat based nutrition need to be concerned
about vitamin A. Means: have to eat liver, kidney, egg or fish regularly.
Because meat is devoid of vitamin A and dairy (a usual source for standard
dieters) falls out for them (according to Ray's interpretation).

>Re B12, from the same textbook, p. 317:
>
>"Anyone who eats reasonable  amounts  of meat is guaranteed an adequate
>intake [of B12] , and lacto-ovo-vegetarians (if they use enough milk,
>cheese, and eggs) are also protected from deficiency.

B12 is a different thing IMO, becaused early primates (and hominids)
ate at least some percent of insects.
Which some (and I) discard for some reason.
Although they are *real* paleo foods.
Despite paleo, i prefered some b12 injections over "enough" insects
or other paleo animals.

>MILK is an animal product, it comes from flesh, in fact it is right to call
>it liquid flesh, not much unlike blood.  It contains ANIMAL PROTEIN ...
>TRUE preformed vit A,  and active B12.

Of course of course. And it's designed for baby mammals, who's metabolism
doesn't work with the same capacity as of adults.
It has everything, you find in a careful sorted collection of the best meat
(or better whole animal).

>Since neither milk nor cheese is a vegetable, no one who eats milk or
>cheese is truly a vegetarian.

Thank you for your kind suggestion, how others are supposed to call
themselves.

> Therefore, no one who eats cheese (no matter what color it is)
>even occasionally can consider him or her self a test case for the
>nutritional adequacy of a purely vegetarian diet.

Such "purely vegetarian" is called vegan, as i've occasionally heard, btw..
Although vegan babies drinking their mothers milk (or from other nurses?)
are still - are they still vegan then? Or mammals?
Or mamma-vegan? Or vegemammatarians?
They really ought to stop after some years. Or the definition may be in
danger.

I cannot be considered a test case?
Sounds like an insurance against a positive b12-test in me.
I resign from any claim to be a test case and never wanted to be.
I just care for myself and people choosing a similar diet.
I consider a deficiency possible, because i assume a small part of small
animals to have been  a really long term part of primate's diet.
And because I'm eating much less cheese as was necessary to achieve any RDA
recommendations (maybe 100g once a week).

>People who don't walk their talk are annoying.
>
>Don

Not everybody understands nutrition based on genetic adaption ("paleo")
in the same way. Especially not as Ray Audette does.
And even his outlines don't remind me very much to "naked with a sharp
stick".
I still want to see the man or woman approaching a wild boar, or a bison
naked with a "sharp" stick. Dig a trap with the stick?
Has someone seen a naked Inuit hunting?
Well, Neanderthals must have done exactely this
(they only had the "stick" as weapon). But not naked.

A repetition about what i talk(ed) on cheese:
1.As humans are mammals, they are perfectely adapted to digesting milk.
 And milk is the perfect food for a growing mammal.
 Consuming milk in ages > 3 or from animals is a derivation from this.
2.People of "western" (european, kaukasian) descent were exposed to whole
 life dairy usage of goat and sheep since about 6400 years. This kind of
 nutrition obviously was very successful in the 6400 year test.
3.Even natural hunters of mammals use to consume small amounts of the milk
 of mother animals and cheese-like substance from child animals.

Conclusion on dairy consumation: moderate amounts, preferrably from sheep
and goat are ok. Not to be processed with any kind of conservatives or
additives. Fresh, no bacteria. Acidophilus cultures (similar to gut
population) probably ok. No fat extraction (reason like any other energy
extraction e.g. sugar), this means no butter or cream.
Butter may be essential for meat consumers (pure energy necessary).

Amadeus Schmidt
Eat like naked with a stick and a stone.