On Tue, 14 Nov 2000 09:43:58 MST, Dori Zook <[log in to unmask]> wrote:

>I said:
>> >Most mammals
>> >designed to live heavily on carbs for energy?  You're joking, right?

>Yet you say "most mammals" are designed to eat primarily carbohydrates.  I
>don't know if this is mathematically correct.  But it seems a significant
>number of mammals are carnivores.  So I repeat; lions AND tigers AND bears
>AND dogs?  All of the above eat MOSTLY meat.

So, that are 4. One of it (dog) doing well with carbohydrate fuel (though
obviously a predator).
Now lets think of other mammals and see if they are "designed to live
heavily on carbs for energy" (i didn't even say "primarily").

Bonobo.
Camel.
Chimp.
Cow.
Donkey.
Elephant.
Gorilla.
Gazelle.
Horse.
Mouse.
Pig.
Squirrel.
I'm shure you know much more english animal names in a minute.
Do they well on carbohydrates.

My point was just to see: all those animals do well on carbohydrates.
I didn't speak abaout vegetarians.
Carbohydrates are the most readyly available food energy on earth.
Mammals exploit this source well.

>Fat and protein are also natural energy sources.  What, besides your
>personal feelings, makes carbs more natural than protein and fat?  All
>three
>macronutrients are found in nature.

Agree. Just as natural. That's no reason to suspect humans beeing unable to
live on carbohydrates.

> By all evidence, only after humans switched to a
>grain-based diet did they have to grapple with such maladies as obesity,
>heart-disease and diebetees.  In straying away from the early dietery
>prototype, numerous diseases are now widespread if not literally endemic.

Have you any indication that, say a megalithic man or a celtic warrior
were more to grapple with the maladies you mention? More as Inuit?
Even if, can it be that they enjoyed some benefits in other plagues?

The endemic 'cultural' diseases, which kill 80% of *our* society are
cancer, heart diseases and some related.
They came up in industry times, particularly after the meat supply (but of
agricultural meat) was better then ever. And now it's best.

>Even complex carbs become sugar in the bloodstream, and lots of it.  A
>medium potato becomes 1/3 cup of sugar, an ear of corn even more than that.

These carbohydrates become blood sugar as well as all the protein you eat in
excess of somewhat near 0.4g per kg bodyweight and day.
And that's good.
At last, our brain cells are going to die if the blood sugar drops
significantly below some 70mg/100ml.

The difference between a natural source of carbohydrate like meat or fruit
and 1/3 cup of sugar is that the latter cannot be used for energy usage in
absence of certain stuff that accompanies the natural source.

If it can't be used for energy processing the body has few options left,e.g.
- deposit as much as possible in form of fat
- panically elevate insulin to lower the (dangerous) blood sugar surge
  (which results from body cells beeing not able to use glucose from blood)
- let yeasts do the breakdown of the carbohydrate (to alcohol)
  this is candida n.b.: yeast is capable to build it's own "certain stuff"

That's the difference.

>I have two important studies on my home computer.  Give me time and I will
>post them.  One is in regards to lectins and arthritis.  Here is the
>conclusion from study #2: "Plant-animal subsistense ratios and
macronutrient
>energy estimations in worlwide hunter-gatherer diets" Loren Cordain, ...

I am interested and am looking forward to your posts.

>Whenever and wherever it was ecologically possible, hunter-gatherers would
>have consumed high amounts (45-65% of total energy) of animal food.  Most
>(73%) hunter-gatherer societies worldwide derived >50% (56-65%) of their
>subsistence from animal foods, whereas only 13.5% of these societies
>derived
>more than half (56-65%) of their subsistence from gathered plant foods. ..

Agreed as a tendency. As humans became a most effective predator they
exploit it. As much as possible (which had it's limits).
Humans as effective predator i'd count from the years after 40000bc.
All animals have to fear human.
Human fear only other humans. Homo hominis lupo.

I note that "(45-65% of total energy) of animal food" can only be reached if
there is rather fatty animal food available. Cordain is approaching his own
limits.
If 35% protein (%of total energy) is the physiological limit, then at least
the rest (10-30%) must come from animal fat.
Wanna play the animal game again?
Name animals that have nearly as much food energy in their fat as from their
protein. (30% to 35%).
Well, that question more goes to Prof.Cordaine who i hope will explain it.

Cheers,
Amadeus.
btw paleolithically having wild fruit on my table "mespilus germanica".
Really fruit of the month (ripe in November).