>From:    "T. Martin" <[log in to unmask]>
>Subject: Re: How Ancient is Cooking

>Ward ..[snip].. talks about the dangers of total orthodoxy with respect
>to a >particular diet.

>>I'm not willing to try to become an orthodox
>>Neanderthiner...[snip]
>>I'm not convinced that I need to go 100% orthodox by Ray's
>>standards to reach what is.

I have to agree with this viewpoint whole heartedly.  It is nice to think
of the "ideal" diet, whether it be vegan, raw, ketogenic, neanderthin, or
what have you.  I personally find a combination of neanderthin and
calorie restriction to work for me, but obviously this isn't for
everyone.

For all the more mainstream folks (average, normal, however you want to
say it) who eat sensibly and mostly paleo I think this important point
should be emphasized.  Paleo eating does seem to be the most sensible,
and in order to recieve excellent benefits from it we do not need to
exclude every grain, legume and dairy product.  I repeat, there is
nothing wrong with a few grains (whole grain bread, hot cereal), legumes
(beans, tofu), or dairy (nonfat milk & yogurt).  To think otherwise is
overly restrictive and unnecessary, IMVHO.

I realize that there are vehement neanderthin supporters on this list who
take the exclusionist approach to these foods.  That's fine, for them.
For others, there is a great deal of benefit waiting for them on a
moderate paleo style diet with a few of the aforementioned foods.  I
believe the real damage comes from the modern, refined carbs, like sugar
and all the packaged goodies, pastries, donuts, cookies, etc.  Lean
meats, fresh veggies, fruit, nuts, and yes a little dairy, legumes and
grains are probably quite optimal for many.  Obviously, if someone has a
gluten or lactose intolerance they should wisely avoid these.  For the
rest of us that is probably not necessary to realize great health
benefits.  What I think is unhealthy is to promote grains, legumes and
dairy as totally off limits for everybody, branding them somehow as the
food demons from the nether world.  Vegetarians usually do have good
health, and tend to outlive their carnivorous niehbors.  It is difficult
(but not impossible for some) to argue with success.  Making people feel
guilty for eating foods/diets which are demonstrably healthy is
pointless.

BTW - I did enjoy Neanderthin, and I wish Ray only the best of luck with
the new edition.  The information is good, and we need to spread the word
about paleo eating.  Doing so with a little level headed reason seems
appropriate for a concept having the potential to benefit so many.

James Crocker
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"Taking a new step...is what people fear most."
 - Dostoyevski
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