At 03:37 PM 8/3/99 -0400, you wrote:
>And how spiritual are the near vegetarians of China
>and Japan who did/still do hours of mediation,
>develop spirit thorough the martial arts
>and more? Maybe more so than your
>idealized hunter/gatherers.

The vast majority of "near vegetarians" of China are so because they
are very poor and can't afford meat.  They crave and relish every
piece of meat.  Also, the meditating kung fu artist is certainly atypical.

>There is a history of long lived people in Japan
>and their nation was built on rice. Mostly
>whole rice and other whole grains. They ate
>flesh but not very much. Maybe their systems
>evolved to where they could flourish on grain based
>diet. Better villi in the intestines to absorb every last
>mineral.

The longest lived people are from Okinawa who eat the MOST meat.  It
was common (still is?) for the children of immigrants from Japan to be
much taller than their parents indicating malnourishment.  As for the rest
of you arguement about evolving and flourishong systems, I suppose you
could say the same thing about modern day America being fed on SAD.


>The beginning of grain cultivation was the beginning
>of large scale societies along with the usual quota
>of *grain fed weaklings*
>
>But grain fed does not automatically equate into
>a shorter weaker life than the hunter gatherer.
>Must use your ability to tell the difference.

In areas and times that shared neolithic and paleolithic cultures, the
skeletal evidence shows far healthier paleolithic remains. e.g. stature
and bone deformity.

>Also many hunter gathers were constantly
>warring over hunting grounds so that lead to a shorter life
>span.
>So their H/G diets may have lead to a vigorous life
>but it was short.

It seems that warfare was more sport for the hunter gatherer as they didn't
seem to think of land in terms of ownership.  In fact, it was the developemnt
of agriculture that led to the concept of land ownership and fighting to
protect
or take others.

I believe that the average lifespan at the turn of the century in America
was about
45 years.  This is about the same age for paleolithic man.  The primary
increases
for modern man rely on a reduction of death during childbirth, infant
mortality,
infectious disease and violent death ('unnatural').  At the very least, it
seems that
they (hunter gatherers) had it no worse.

><hehehehheh>

<HaHaHaHaHa!>   ;-)

  Wade Reeser

0>============================================
>
>
>----- Original Message -----
>From: Wayne VanTassel <[log in to unmask]>
>To: <[log in to unmask]>
>Sent: Tuesday, August 03, 1999 10:16 AM
>Subject: Re: [P-F] a vegetarian paleo??
>
>
>| At 09:44 AM 8/3/99 -0400, you wrote:
>| >You picture yourself as an American Indian.
>| >
>| >Perhaps you are not totally on base.
>|
>| I am an American Indian ('shinabe).
>|
>| What what does that have to do with anything?  The
>spiritual connection
>| between the hunter and the natural world is shared in all
>hunting cultures,
>| traditional european culture included.