On Wed, 4 Oct 2000 16:09:43 EDT, Gawen Harrison <[log in to unmask]>
wrote:

>I seems that your Paleo vegetarianism may need to be questioned if you need=

>to take pills to stay healthy
>-Gawen

Gawen, perhaps you didn't get my point.
I got some problems *after* I ate the additional vitamin B12
and pausing it.
I've come to the point to question the whole supplementation.
It was only based on a comparison of my blood and some "average"
(154 compared to average 200 to 900).
As the experience of my girlfriend suggests, the slightly lower level
(than
"average") could remain stable further. She will not supplement.

I agree with your point of view, that pills should *not* be necessary
to
stay healthy. Despite the opinions expressed from time to time - it
*is*
possible to eat about RDA with a natural selection IMO.

At last vitamins as essentials were necessary all the millions of
years and
also for paleolithical humans, humanoids and predecessors. Without
pills.
Only exception may be to cope with disease situations.

Making vegetables a staple is very good for this.
Its easy to eat very much vegetables, because they are not so dense
energetically and in this way you get much more vitamins and minerals.
Eating low dense, high volume, high fiber, high vitamin, high mineral
--
well I think that's real paleo.

I tried computations with meat based nutritions too.
The result was, that you can get close to RDA with most vitamins if
you ate
*very* high amounts of meat. About 1kg per day. This is close or
beyond the
limit of protein toxicity. I'll include an example below.
Some vitamins are hard to get is this way.
Particularly Vitamin E and C and Calcium.
I did include organ meat as well (liver). So I could include folic
acid and
a little vitamin C. But though vitamin C is still at only 33%, Vitamin
A is
already at up at 1400 percent. 14-fold. Vitamin A intoxication would
follow
up after some time.
Carefully adding intense vitamin C sources would be necessary.
Plus vitamin E, and some fat (calorie) sources, as game meat is such a
bad
energy source. How to add enough calcium....... *you* should tell.

Then, with a plant selection it's easier to supply the needs.
If you include seeds (nuts or any other) then without eating
extreme big volumes. Only vitamin B2 hard to get above some 50% with
it.
And then Vitamin B12.... there's no good reasoning for the RDA (just
what is=

consumed "by average"). How could they, if each human has a stores for
10
years. Deficiencies occur if the *re*-uptake fails.
That 1 micro-gram.... it's a guess.

below the meat only example for your information

Cheers

Amadeus S.

Composition:
item                               grams  energy
Deer (medium fat)                   500   717.7
Liver                               100   135.4
"meat" fresh                        500  1574.2
(note the big liver part- more as paleopossible
also note that i included ordinary 24%fat meat
this is NOT available in a savannah
but otherwise it would have been impossible to collect enough energy)


Summary was:
(forgive me not translating from german language I think you'll
understand)
Item             Sum            Recommended   percentage achieved
Energie:         2427.3 kcal    2600.0 kcal    93
Eiweiss:          220.0  g        55.0  g     400
Fett:             148.8  g        75.5  g     197
Kohlenhydrate:      2.2  g       408.0  g       1
mehrf. ung. FS:    14.6  g        10.0  g     146
Ballaststoffe:      0.0  g        30.0  g       0
Natrium:          700.0 mg      2000.0 mg      35
Kalium:          2950.0 mg      3500.0 mg      84
Magnesium:        318.0 mg       350.0 mg      91
Calcium:          157.0 mg       800.0 mg      20
Phosphor:        2560.0 mg       800.0 mg     320
Eisen:             44.0 mg        12.0 mg     367
Zink:              30.0 mg        15.0 mg     200
Vit. A:         14283.0 =B5g      1000.0 =B5g    1428
Vit. E:             3.3 mg        12.0 mg      27
Fols=E4ure:         292.1 =B5g       160.0 =B5g     183
Vit. B1:            1.2 mg         1.4 mg      85
Vit. B2:            4.7 mg         1.7 mg     277
Vit. B6:            3.5 mg         1.8 mg     194
Vit. C:            25.0 mg        75.0 mg      33
 so far....