On Fri, 3 Jul 2009 18:12:31 -0400, Paleo Phil <[log in to unmask]> wrote:
>On Thu, 2 Jul 2009 12:18:10 -0400, Padraig Hogan
<[log in to unmask]>
>wrote:
>
>...
>>I suggest you read Man The Hunted and similar books which completely
>>overturn the idea of man hunting for meat, and stop getting your
information
>>from people suffering from metabolic syndrome off the internet and off of
>>blogs.
>>
>
>Padraig, I'll read Man the Hunted if you read The Paleolithic Societies of
>Europe by Clive Gamble, in which extensive evidence is documented that
>Paleolithic peoples hunted, butchered and ate aurochs, bison, horse, bear,
>deer and other animals. I also recommend that you read about the problems
>with a fruitarian diet at http://beyondveg.com/cat/fruit-dreams/index.shtml
>and the benefits of a diet based on meat/fat/organs in the writings of
>Vilhjalmur Stefansson.
>
I could be wrong on this I bet those were confined mainly to late paleolithic
times. Adult male humans have been hunted, butchered and eaten alive by
leopards, lions, tigers, snakes, hyenas, bears, even wolves (despite reports
you may have heard to the contrary for North American wolves) and so on.
Now... the authors don't present views that we were all strict fruitarians or
explicitly claim what paleo man ate, but they do support their opinion that we
were all scaredy-cats hiding out in caves etc. and not hunting for game too
much ourselves.
>Despite knowing that you likely won't read Gamble's book or much of the
>other stuff, I bear no grudge against you, because I realized some time ago
>that fruitarians, vegetarians, vegans, and near-vegetarians are my greatest
>allies. Your and their eating of nutritionally deficient diets keeps the
>prices of meats, fats and organs down so that I can afford to feast on the
>foods I thrive best on. Your suffering ensures my salvation. I would like to
>offer my thanks to you for that (granted, I do eat some fruits, greens, nuts
>and such, so I would be more in your debt if you ate grains, legumes and
>dairy, but I won't quibble).
>
And let me extend you my gratitude for keeping fruit prices down.
To be honest I try to keep it to myself a lot, if every fruitarian went out and
proclaimed it to the world then they'd convert so many people we'd all have to
either eat processed foods or starve. However, I hate seeing my fellow human
beings (those who are naturally low-protein probably more related to me),
suffering to I try to proclaim it to those who will listen anyway.... and
especially try to denounce misinformation about how paleolithic man ate.
>As a matter of fact, I've recently learned that I do better on a diet even
>lower in carbs and higher in meats & fats than I expected and have started
>to post here again to share my success. I had been eating lots of Paleo
>plant foods, including significant carbs, and a relatively lean diet (based
>in part on the fact that I didn't digest some fats well or like their taste
>or mouth feel). I had long suspected that wasn't optimal and I gradually
>shifted to a lower-carb, higher-fat diet with increasing amounts of fat and
>raw meat and have experienced remarkable improvements.
>
I think it may be a bit like a movie or book that you think is amazing and yet
you can't for the life of you understand why someone else hates it, or vice
versa. As unbelievable as it may seem, people are just wired very differently
sometimes and this extends to biology. Yes, some people really, really do
better on a low-protein diet. You may be suffering from insulin and adrenal
problems from earlier bad indiscretions in life such that you've become super-
sensitive and the tiniest hint of carbs will get your insulin to gush out, others
don't have that problem. Just find what's right for you and suits you best.
>Cutting out nightshades entirely proved quite beneficial. It was always a
>questionable food category to me, but for a while I thought that at least
>some of the nightshades were probably benign and maybe even healthy. Not
>long after I experienced benefits from eliminating them, Dr. Cordain
>reported research results that identifies nightshades as containing saponins
>and other antinutrients that contribute to gut permeability and autoimmune
>diseases like MS.
>
I don't even know what nightshades are, but if they're not a fruit then I
wouldn't be too shocked if they're bad for you. Fruits are the nearly perfect
food (probably perfect in the wild), they are the food of choice for all
primates.
>I tried vegetarianism and near-vegetarianism years ago and did not do well
>on them. As for fruits, I find that if I eat too much fruit, especially
>sugary fruits like dried fruits and fruit juices, I develop lots of dead
>skin, placque, bleeding gums, etc., so a fruitarian diet is not for me, but
>you're welcome to it.
>
I never really tried strict vegetarianism as I'm not a fanatic. I think I will
always take more than one serving of fish per week. Fruit juices are not fruit,
ESPECIALLY not ones that are sweetened... although I have often picked up
delicious blueberry juice when they're out of season.
>>Wild men are savages, savages hunt for meat... tribes hunt for meat...
>clearly ...
>
>That's an ugly display of ethnocentrism toward traditional peoples on your
>part. Re: that I recommend you read Ishmael by Daniel Quinn.
>
No, it wasn't that at all. My point was that it was that sort of thinking that
helped propagate the idea of "Man the Hunter".
>If you are one of the trolls that stop by this forum from time to time,
>you'll find your efforts to be a complete waste of time. As far as I can
>tell, none of the trolls has ever changed the mind of anyone here because
>the Paleo Diet and variations on it have been have been working for us and
>the trolls have been sorely lacking in evidence and good sense.
Maybe it's because of the dogma that seems to be floating around here and
the net in general that the Paleo Diet consisted of a very high amount of meat
protein.
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