Hi Ron;

I understand what you are saying and I agree that grains may be more 
injurious rather than a health benefit to people, but after reading this 
book I began to wonder. Although they only mention it as a "possible" (3rd 
after "convincing" and "probable") protective factor and the book explains 
that there may be other variables at play so it's hard to make a strong 
recommendation.

I haven't been making any bread for about 2-3 years after my bread-maker 
died and have taken to eating the sprouted manna bread in the last year more 
for its fibre content.

But, what is your opinion of sprouted bread? As I understand it has a 
greatly reduced phytate content, and and is much higher in nutrients than 
non-sprouted.

http://www.herbsarespecial.com.au/free-sprout-information/wheat.html

"The sprouting process starts a beneficial modification of various 
nutritional elements. Research undertaken at the University of Minnesota, 
USA, showed that sprouting increases the nutrient density of food. At 3 days 
of sprouting, much of the original carbohydrate is converted to natural 
sugars, making it less mucus forming. During the 3 days of sprouting, the 
vitamin E content can increase 300%, vitamin C increase 600%, and the B 
vitamins have been found to increase from 20% to 1200%, with B17, the 
'anti-cancer vitamin' 100% more than in unsprouted seed."

I don't know the guten content compared to regular bread though. I think 
that there is some breakdown of gluten during germination ("Note too, that 
gluten is not present in wheatgrass because, after germination, gluten is 
broken down into smaller building blocks, needed for growing the grass. 
These smaller molecules are much easier for us to assimilate."). Of course 
the longer it germinates the better,  culminating in the growth of 
wheatgrass that has, "...been found to have up to a 100 times more vitamin 
B17, than the seed from which it came". Wheatgrass is undoubtedly a very 
good food - every bear knows that.

Unless one is diagnosed gluten-intolerant, I wonder if avoidance of foods 
such as manna bread may be unnecessarily restricting valuable nutrients from 
one's intake?

Marilyn

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Dr. R Hoggan" <[log in to unmask]>
To: <[log in to unmask]>
Sent: Sunday, February 04, 2007 10:27 AM
Subject: Re: Good article on eating


> Hi Marilyn,
>
> I have followed this thread with interest and I certainly agree with the
> feedback you have gotten from William and Philip. I believe that your
> interest in whole grains is an outgrowth of its advertised value in 
> reducing
> the risk of colorectal cancers. That may not be the best reason for eating
> anything derived from grains.
>
> Dietary studies in humans are notoriously difficult to design for accurate
> and meaningful results. Rarely can a single variable be isolated and
> manipulated in ways that result in specific, measurable outcomes. Most 
> human
> dietary studies are conducted based on patients recollections over rather
> lengthy periods. Some are conducted based on patients being given
> nutritional instruction, then the patient is asked at follow-up about 
> their
> compliance. Other studies estimate the proportional consumption of soluble
> fiber in their diet. One study that was cited on a television commercial
> touted the value of oats for preventing colorectal cancers. The 
> relationship
> they were touting had just barely made it to statistical significance.
> Variations in dietary practices, aside from the food being studied,
> variations in the subject's perceptions of the food in question, and a 
> host
> of other factors make such studies very difficult. I'm also concerned 
> about
> how large a role the researcher's bias is playing when the approaches 
> become
> too innovative.  Despite some impressively creative approaches to studying
> human diet, I have read only a few such research reports that I would 
> trust
> very far.
>
> The few exceptions identify a single food or food group and it is totally
> eliminated or extensively manipulated. A gluten-free diet is often used. A
> dairy-free diet offers another approach. Each of the ketogenic diets 
> offers
> yet another such intervention. When individuals comply with such diets 
> they
> are making a dramatic change that may induce a measurable, meaningful
> result. Despite the usual absence of control groups these studies, and 
> their
> many other weaknessses, I consider these diets in to be a much better 
> source
> of data.
>
> There are some studies of this sort that show reductions in a variety of
> tumor types following institution of a gluten-free diet,, and some studies
> that show tumor size reduction following compliance with a gluten-free 
> diet
> or a ketogenic diet. These latter are, I think, particularly instructive.
>
> I realize that your concern is prevention so you may be wondering why I
> would look so favourably at tumor size reduction. My reasoning is that if 
> an
> intervention can cause tumor reduction, then it should serve as a useful
> tool for prevention.
>
> There are reports in the _Lancet_ (1) and the _Journal of Clinical
> Gastroenterol_(2,3). They report a total remission of malignancy in celiac
> patients following a gluten-free diet. One report then recants the 
> original
> diagnosis, and identifies the correct diagnosis as lymphadenopathy.
>
> Further, in a 1977 report, in _Nutrition and Cancer_ (4), from Stanford
> University, *all* the children suffering from radiation and chemotherapy
> damage to the small bowel recovered fully from their chronic enteritis, 
> and
> suffered *no* relapse of either the bowel obstruction or the disease. The
> treatment they were given was a gluten-free, dairy-free, low fat, low
> residue diet.
>
> Others have reported the use of a ketogenic diet to reduce tumor size and
> cause disease remission in two patients (5,6).
>
> There are many reasons to question any of these studies. As a person with
> celiac disease, I am strictly compliant with a gluten-free diet and the 
> only
> dairy I eat is butter. I believe that my risk of malignancy is reduced
> because of my diet. However, if I ever do get cancer of any kind, I plan 
> to
> follow a ketogenic diet unless something else comes along in the interim
> that offers ne an even better prospect.
>
>
> 1. Holmes, et. al. "Malignancy in coeliac disease - effect of a gluten 
> free
> diet" Gut 1989; 30: 333-338
>
> 2. de Boer et. al. "Disappearance of Mesenteric Lymphadenopathy with
> Gluten-Free diet in Celiac Sprue" J. Clin. Gastroenterol 1993; 
> 16(4):317-319
>
> 3. Wink A, et. al. "Disappearance of Mesenteric Lymphadenopathy with
> Gluten-Free Deit in Celiac Sprue" _J. Clin. Gastroenterol_1993; 16(4):
> 317-319
>
> 4. Donaldson SS, "Effect of Nutrition as Related to Radiation and
> Chemotherapy"  _Nutrition and Cancer_ Winick ed. 1977; Wiley & Sons,  New
> York, 137153
>
> 5. Nebeling LC, Lerner E.  Implementing a ketogenic diet based on
> medium-chain triglyceride oil in pediatric patients with cancer. J Am Diet
> Assoc. 1995 Jun;95(6):693-7.
>
> 6.  Nebeling LC, Miraldi F, Shurin SB, Lerner E. Effects of a ketogenic 
> diet
> on tumor metabolism and nutritional status in pediatric oncology patients:
> two case reports. J Am Coll Nutr. 1995 Apr;14(2):202-8.
>
>
> You also mentioned a controversy regarding the nutritional value of
> phytates. I would encourage you to look more closely at that issue. The 
> harm
> caused by phytates is that they bind to minerals in a way that does not
> allow their absorption through the intestinal wall. We waste them in 
> feces.
> How would anti-oxidants in phytates reach beyond the intestinal lumen to
> provide any health benefits? How would they provide benefits within the
> lumen?
>
>
>
> Best Wishes,
> Ron Hoggan
>