<< >Ginny Wilken wrote:
 >Well, here's my non-scientific understanding of it: You cannot make
>fat
 >out of protein and fat without having ingested carbohydrates to
>provoke
 >the insulin response, so you don't necessarily easily store >fat. >>

First, yes, insulin is constantly circulating.  Keeping a dominance of
glucagon is the key.

One theory is that high levels of ketosis trigger an exaggerated
insulin
response.  This is the feedback mechanism that prevents ketoacidosis.
When
ketone levels are high in the blood stream, insulin is the mechanism
to
remove it.  Therefore, someone on a highly ketotic diet will actually
be less
able to lose fat than someone in fairly low ketosis.  This is all
theory from
Lyle McDonald, from anectodal evidence, but seems to ring true.

<And yes, the body can make fat out of protein, just as it can make
fat out
of carbs.>
To clarify, as I understand it, the body can convert approx. 50% of
protein
to glucose if there is an excess.  That figure may be wrong, as I
don't have
my books with me.  It does not convert it directly to fat.  If the
body lacks
glucose, it will convert protein.  The brain and some other tissues
need
glucose.  If adequate glucose is provided, it will not usually be
necessary
for the body to convert it via neoglucogenesis.  There is no mechanism
for
the body to produce fat directly from protein.

<You tell people these bullshit stories about how they can exercise
less and
lose fat.>
To date, I have lost 36 pounds without lifting a finger.  My beginning
weight
was 238.  I do believe I will need to start the E word to get things
moving
more rapidly now that I'm not AS obese.

<"Eat a pound of bacon for breakfast.  Lose fat.  Gain muscle
without even touching a weight.  Improved blood pressure and
cholesterol.
The more fat you eat the more fat you will lose (don't I wish?).">

That has been my experience so far, except the theory is not as you
state it.
 Keeping fat intake too low has stalled me, and raising it to a level
of
satiety and what my body needs for energy has helped.  I do believe
that
excess fat, even combined with ketosis, can produce fat gain.  But the
question is, how much is too much?  And Todd's experience may not have
been
ketotic.  Todd might want to chime in.

I do agree that it is not for everyone, and it does not work for
everyone.
But for the obese, it generally does.  It seems to work far better for
obese
men than women.  Just in my experience, I haven't heard of a man being
unable
to lose weight on a higher fat ketogenic diet, all exercise aside.  I
have
heard women complain that it's difficult.  Degree of compliance is
always an
issue.

I usually find your posts very informative, Justin, but the sarcasm
and
hostility in this one was unwarranted.  Your opinion could have been
much
more well received without it.  I would really like to hear your
opinions,
sans the venom.

Denise