----- "Keith Thomas" <[log in to unmask]> wrote: 
> I am surprised that an empiricist like you, Todd, should take up the Optimal Diet. I'm experimenting with it too and have quadrupled my intake of saturated animal fats over the past three months, while confining my food intake to palaeo foods. 

I'm an empiricist, but also a pragmatist. I should say, however, that the emphasis should be on *my interpretation* of the OD. I haven't read the books, nor do I have any interest in doing so. What I've heard matches what you've just written: They are a melange of science, pseudo-science, and philosophical blather. I prefer my science, and my philosophy, straight. I haven't even read through much of the stuff on the OD web site. Pretty much all I know about it is what I've gleaned from Peter at the Hyperlipid blog. Of all the people that I know of who write about nutrition science on the internet, he strikes me as one of the very best. He endorses and follows some version of the OD, so I'm willing to do the same. And really, what it comes down to is a protein-limited lowcarb (but not zero carb) high-fat diet, with strong emphasis on animal fat. 

> One final point, Kwasniewski has a formula for calculating ideal weight (Kg = height in cm minus 100). This leads to a weight which I think is pretty right, but it would be considered bordering on "fat" by many in North America, the UK etc. 

I ignore that, as well. My self-chosen "ideal" weight is even fatter. At 6'1", my ideal weight would be 85 kg, according to OD. That's 187 lbs. As far as I'm concerned, that's laughably unrealistic. I prefer to trust my own sense of where my weight should be, based on personal experience. I am large-framed, with relatively short legs (30" inseam trousers) for my height. Consequently, I have a longer torso than average. The shirts I buy frequently aren't long enough. Someone my height would normally wear 32" length trousers. That 2" difference in torso length is in itself, in my view, enough to skew the weight calculations by 10-20 lbs. Moreover, in the past I've sometimes managed to lose weight. It's only with extreme difficulty that I have ever gone below 200 lbs., and when I've done so, I felt weak and cold. My experience is that 210 lbs. is a realistic and sustainable weight. 200 would be great, but I really doubt that I can get there. I'm also pretty muscular, compared to a lot of men my age. I've done high intensity weight training at least sporadically for decades, and I look it. Even at my fattest, people consistently would underestimate my weight. At over 270 lbs, I was still able to do 33 push-ups. The average man, at my age, can do 15, and weighs only 185 lbs. I'm not mentioning these things to brag about my fitness, which would be ridiculous. I'm just making the point that my general build is far from average. 

So, my protein ceiling is about 95g/day. Most days, I come pretty close to that. When I was following a more general paleo plan, including a zero-carb, all-meat experiment, I'd eat much more protein than that, and I wouldn't lose weight. 

> Kwasniewski's Optimal Diet is not palaeo, but the macronutrient profile is similar and Kwasniewski refers to his diet as the optimal one for a human organism. I am following it broadly using only palaeo foods, so I think it's legit to continue our discussion of it here. 

I agree. It's certainly possible to follow the OD with paleo foods, and at some point I'd like to do that. But as I say, I'm a pragmatist. I need to lose weight, and I need to do it in a way that I can live with. If I need to spend a lot of time preparing or obtaining "special" foods, it's just not going to work for me. The use of dairy fats makes it much easier to be on a high-fat diet, so that's what I do. I use quite a lot of butter, and I get what I consider to be good quality butter, such as Kerrygold. I eat some yogurt, especially when I need to take something with me for lunch, and I know I will have trouble finding anything appropriate. The yogurt I use is Fage full-fat Greek yogurt. And I use organic sour cream to "fatten up" meals that have lean protein sources. Without these foods, it would be a lot harder to get enough fat. I don't want to make this any harder than it already is. I eat very little cheese, since it's relatively high in protein, and I prefer to get my protein from meat. Obviously, there's a fair amount of protein in the Fage yogurt; not so much in sour cream, and virtually none in butter. 

As my weight comes down, what *should* happen is that my protein and carb intake remains the same, forever, but my need for fat/energy diminishes. At some point, it should be easier to cut down or eliminate the extravagant use of dairy fats. I only eat about 50g of carbs/day. That's only about 200 calories. Most of the protein shouldn't be used for energy, but it's impossible to know how much is being so used. Even if *all* the protein were used for energy, my total non-fat energy per day is under 600 calories. That leaves a lot of energy to be made up as fat. 

Todd Moody