On Wed, 23 Aug 2000 14:12:20 MDT, Dori Zook <[log in to unmask]>
wrote:

>.. I'm also in the process of eliminating all
>meats with hormones. ..
>And I know SOME people out there will be suggesting I get wild game but,
>once again, I can't afford it.  You CAN, however, get hormone free meats
>and fish at mainstream grocery stores.  ..

>I'm a little tired of cyber-hand grenades being lobbed a little too
>liberally from time to time. ..

and today:
>Would it be better to eat organic apples with no pesticide?  Yes, but would
> an apple WITH some pesticide on it kill me?  It hasn't yet. ..

Dori, as you responded this in the follow-up to my posting revealing
the unpaleoness of conventional beef and other meat (for example
 at
http://maelstrom.stjohns.edu/CGI/wa.exe?A2=ind0008&L=paleofood&P=R483
and
http://maelstrom.stjohns.edu/CGI/wa.exe?A2=ind0007&L=paleofood&P=63594
)
I'd like to add some words of clarification.

You are concerned about hormones and pesticides and other toxins that
come
with non organic and non-grass-fed meat.

I really think it's worth thinking about this. Without too much stress
or
worry if you don't want to invest more money into the better thing.

But it misses the point.
The main point is that fat of *all* fed cattle has a composition, that
1. can suppress essential fatty acids working
2. has much less essential fatty acids *and* bad w-3 to w-6 ratio as
was
  found in any circumstance in nature (except cereal fat and some
nuts)

A lack of proper EFAs is not a funny thing and has a strong link to
many deadly degenerative (civilisation) diseases.
If makes sense that unpaleo produced agriculture products (as meat of
fed
animals) are linked to unpaleo diseases.

References I've cited. The table in Erasmus' book (p.225) of various
meats
(various game and nature cattle like Zebu) gives a good impression
of *how* extreme commercial animal fat is.

I didn't want to mention the actions necessary to equal this out,
because
this is the kind of supplementation you need to sustain your
*agricultural* meat eating lifestyle.

But here it is.

You've to avoid cattle fat as possible (prefer 1.fish, 2.fowl).
You can supplement with proper plant fats, provided you avoid all
hydrogenated and refined varieties. It needs to have a good and strong
taste.
Sunflower and Sesame are a good (and less expensive) choice, but
*need to* be accompanied by at least 1/3 the amount of flax oil.
Safflor, canola and soy oil i doubt to be available in good quality
- if yes, then adding flax oil (over the days) is also required.
The supplement amounts (of supplement fat to animal fat) can be around
20-30% of the total fat.
In addition, supplementing long chain EFAs may be wise (Cod liver
oil).

Expensive fats that could be eaten in any amount desired (from the EFA
POV)
are 1.hemp oil,2.fat of unfed wild game,3.walnut oil.

Olive oil is *unsuitable* to complement animal fats.
It has only 10% EFAs and too much of oleic acid and too few w-3 LNA.
It is a very good *replacement* for animal fat, however.
And whoever eats meat needs *a lot* of fat in addition - about the
same
weight as the meat had.

Here you have your mild technology use (extracting the oil) to equal
out
eating a totally unpaleo food (agricultural fed animnals).

If you didn't extract the oil from its sources, the whole oil seed was
likely to be a complete paleo food.

Amadeus S.