You've been watching too much PBS channel on TV.
>>>> Don and Rachel Matesz <[log in to unmask]> 08/06/99 04:20AM >>>
>---
>Don Matesz <[log in to unmask]>
>
>>On Thu, 5 Aug 1999 13:55:15 -0400, Midas Gold <[log in to unmask]
wtote
>>Re: Spirituality and Carnivore:
>>
>>Be careful, though - there are clear-cut exceptions to this. This
>>self-denial view of spirituality is not shared by all so-called
>>"Agra-cultural" traditions. Some do believe that being spiritual
does
>>not necessitate denial of one's "animal" drives. In fact, quite the
>>opposite is true; they view physical drives (when used properly) as
a
>>means of attaining greater spirituality, not less.
People can justify any behavior if they want to.
>
>I assume you are talking about such stuff as Tantra, wherein the
devotee
>uses" sex to "attain greater spirituality." First, those are
definitely the
>exceptions, not the rule. Further, since they are inversions of the
rule,
>they are just the rule in just another form. According to the rule,
you
>attain salvation by denying self; according to the exceptions, you
attain
>salvation by indulging self. So one asks you to deny your sexuality,
the
>other to twist it into a "spiritual" discipline. Both paths result in
a
>dysfunctional attitude toward sex. Isn't it sad that we spoil Nature
by
>making some part of it something to be "used properly" to "attain
greater
>spirituality"?
Actually, yes, sex can be used to attain greater spirituality, by
having a family, children, and a marriage. This will bring
you much closer to God than anything else you can do.
It ain't easy though. Parenting is not for cowards.
>
>Just like urinating, sex is a natural function, not something to be
"used"
>for "salvation." Where are the "spiritual" traditions that teach
urination
>can be "used properly" to achieve salvation?
Urinating does not create children. Thus urinating has almost nothing
to do with a God-like life or social structure.
>
>My point is this: The common feature of all Agra-cultural
"spiritual"
>traditions is the idea that you NEED "salvation" and you must go
against
>your Nature to attain it. The whole problem is this: Agra-culture
teaches
>us that we are not OK, we are "fallen" and "not spiritual enough" so
we have
>to do something unusual. or turn something natural into something
unusual,
>to be "saved".
No, you need salvation, by becoming what a human being truly is. I
see
this as "going with nature" for if you are truly what you are then you
will be
like God.
When Judeo-Christian religions talk of the natural man they mean the
undiscipline, immediate following of every impulse. The great
difference between
Man and the other animals is the complex symbolic thought process
that can go on in the mind, and the ability to defer present
gratification
for future gain. Thus, self control for future better life is the
hallmark of
a truly mature human being.
The very most intelligent of the animals only scratch the surface of
deferred gratification.
>
>Paleo culture accepted man as he is, just as we accept the lions and
oryx
>and monkey. Those animals don't need spiritual "salvation". They
are OK
I wish modern society would accept Man for what he is, instead of
having to
relegate him to be "just on of the animals"
>just as Nature made them. So why does man need "salvation"? He
doesn't;
>the whole idea is an Agra-cultural hoax. Man is not "fallen", he's
not
>"imperfect." Man is just another animal, OK just as Nature made
him.
>Once we accept that, and stop viewing our selves as "fallen" or
imperfect,
>and stop trying to "fix" ourselves, we start to make some progress.
No, man is not "just another animal". Whether you are religious or
not,
there is an obvious and large cognitive difference between Homo Sapiens
and
the next most intelligent species (apes or dolphins?)
I like your rather naive idea of the glorious Paleo Man living at one
with the
environment and the world. They also practice human sacrifice,
cannibalism,
sexual slavery, and had no concept of individual rights. Agricultural
societies
did not invent oppression, torture, or religious slavery. All
agricultural
societies did was invent a way to survive the decline of mega-fauna
and
the weather change at the end of the ice-age. If I was in their same
position
I would do the same to survive. We have the luxury now of being able
to
eat a Paleo diet and still enjoy penicillin, novocaine, law and order,
computer games,
and even Monday Night Football. The good-old-days weren't.
So, back to the paleo diet and activity patterns.
>
>
>Don
Richard Keene, Novell Inc, Provo, Utah, 801-861-4389,
[log in to unmask]
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