Thank you Mary for your most interesting article by

> DR SHAW'S WEBSITE..gut pathogens, gut ecology
>
>  http://www.greatplainslaboratory.com/newpage12.htm

and your and Lois' interesting personal reports on yeasts.
W.Shaw's article describes some yeast and clostridia toxins and how they
work, interfering with the body's cell respiration (Krebs cycle).
As you may have noticed i suspect a bunch of health problems to be caused by
a not working Kerbs cycle (and the pyruvate stage wich feeds it).

Primarily because i see a couple of nutrition related reasons why Krebs
cycle can't work properly. Because of missing or inadequate supply of the
vitamins, which are required to keep it working.

Now, Dr.Shaw finds yeasts to be a *reason* for the impaired energy cycle by
releasing a toxin interrupting the cycle at "malic acid" stage.
Like missing vitamins b1,b2,b3 then b6,b12,panthotenic, folic,biotin.
Each one can cause this. A easy description at
http://biology.clc.uc.edu/courses/bio104/cellresp.htm

Now i think that yeasts (or any bacteria) grow where they find food, so they
grow because the food isn't properly used by the human and "leftovers" or
intermediates are used by other organisms. yeast.
Now if yeast and clostridia create toxins, which further disable Krebs cycle
directly or by disabling the energy vitamins (b1-3) the picture becomes
larger.
It looks like a vicious cycle.
Cause x causes yeasts .. causes food for yeasts.. causes yeasts.. and so on.

What is the initial cause for yeast growth isn't clear from Shaw but
doses of intibiotics identified as a possible cause.

Just plain sugar-eating can equally be the the entry into this vicious
cycle. Sugar is not really metabilizable and therefore much is left to
the yeasts .. which can produce more for them by disabling cell respiration.
...
interesting

On Thu, 9 Nov 2000 16:01:02 -0800, P & L Ventura <[log in to unmask]>
wrote:

>> Wouldn't the paleo diet accomplish the same thing?
>>
>For some, yes.  For others, like myself, no.

It came to my mind that a low-carb diet- which restricts the blood sugar to
a low level and bans carbohydrates (yeast food) from the bowel might be
ideal for this.

>In all the reasearch I've done, the consensus is that, once the the
>yeast has transformed from its saprophyte form to its mycelial form
>(puts down "roots" that dig into the intestinal walls), it is extremely
>resistant to phagocytosis (beneficial bacteria and immune cells that
>"eat up" the pathogens).

That has been told to us too, as my wife encountered candidosis once.
The doctor even showed us such altered candida forms in a drop of blood.
Besides stopping the fungus' food supply (high carbohydrate food)
his answer was to eat preparates of altered fungi, to enhance bodies' imune
abilities (of a firm called "Sanum" or so).

> Worse yet, when the yeast outgrows its food
>source, or its normal food supply is reduced (ie. taking the carbos out
>of the diet), it transforms into its mycelial form and continues to
>"feed" on living tissue, forming a growing colony.

Bad news for the low carb approach. The glucose level in the blood can't
drop below a certain level- even when not *eating* carbs.


>I guess you already know magnesium malabsorption (and biotin deficiency)
>is common with candidiasis.

Or part of the cause (Biotin is one of the energy vitamins).

> I figured it was about time I brandished my
>Nystatin battleth and Diflucan phaser in the battle, as a valiant, final
>Klingon effort.  And--Dang!--if they ain't workin'!

NySTATin just hinders the fungus multiplication, as long as it's present.
The killing itself has still to be done by the imune system or the symbiont
flora.
I've been told, that Nystatin too causes the fungus to change form and
location (as you described it), just to show up later again.
Later on the natural regime will establish again.

I think that establishing the right gut flora of symbionts is a main
point in fighting yeast infections. And a well founded supply on the energy
vitamins, that the body can properly process it's own energy.

To avoid dysbiosis (and establishing flora) many points have been mantioned
by natural doctors, like:
- a high fiber diet (seems to encourace the symbionts)
- eating some plants containing strong toxins (mainly for bad bugs)
  like garlic,raddish, origanum, several strong herbs.
  Even several antinutrients may be among the necessary ones.
  E.g. phytin (which is even available as a drug) or lectins.
....

And then some time has to pass to allow good bugs to creep in.
If not one symbiont cell is present, it can't multiply.
I didn't hear about such bacteria implantations yet, as you described.

Some should be present from the very first moments after birth (like Dr.Shaw
suggested too).
I've been wondering why mothers milk contains more carbohydrate (lactose!)
as the baby could metabolyise (not enough thiamine). Are Waerland claims
that this lactose is necessary to sustain the healthy symbionts up to the
time when real fiber comes into the babie's stomach. Miraculously a babies
stool smells well as long as breastfed and changes to nasty after
introducing other food (like cows milk).

regards

Amadeus