Hi Mike, 

[Ron] You threw some questions open to the whole list so I'm quoting
snippets of your post to Todd and responding to them. I realize that this
risks misunderstanding as I remove these snippets from their context. I will
try to guard against that. 

Of course, as you mentioned it is also the way cattle are raised that is 
disturbing and I realize that aspect could be remedied.

[Ron] This is a disturbing, partly economic, partly humane issue with some
very real public health concerns. Rates of e-coli infection (the type that
can survive our stomach acids) among free range cattle is a tiny portion of
that found in feedlot cattle.  As ruminants, it is natural for cattle to
reach down and chew on what they find on the ground. If there is only fecal
matter from other cattle, they will still chew on it. In addition to being
penned in the small space of a feed lot, the cattle are subjected to a
brutal, disease-ridden, unpleasant life. 

If it was possible to create a non-meat food that provided all the nutrients
of 
meat would you switch to it rather to continue eating meat?

[Ron] I don't believe it is possible. On almost any day you read this list
there is considerable disagreement about the nature and content of the Paleo
Diet. For instance:  The types and quantities of fats are huge bones of
contention; The proportion and nature of proteins provide more room for
debate; Then there are all of the debates regarding carbohydrates; Cooking
or raw is another area of strong disagreement; Finally, there are
disagreements regarding various impacts on individual measurements of
cholesterol, blood glucose, triglycerides, etc. and their various impacts on
health and fitness.  In short, current nutritional knowledge is extremely
limited and enormously biased. It will be a very long time before we will
know what nutrients are necessary and beneficial to humans. Without that
knowledge we can't feasibly work toward creating a non-meat food
replacement. I suspect that I would make such a shift if I thought it was
possible, but I'd have to have a lot more confidence in the determination of
exactly what is healthy than I currently have in any authority in this area.


Maybe that's what those vegetarians do now. Try to make up for the 
differences between meat and fruits/vegetables by taking vitamins and 
supplements.

[Ron] I'm sorry, but I think that is a fool's errand. Right now I believe it
is self-destructive to follow that path. On an ethical level I'd love to be
able to avoid the inhumane practices surrounding meat production.  

Since I also try to exercise regularly I have also been thinking into
looking into 
those "protein" shakes that I see advertised in muscle magazines and 
sometimes see in speciality stores. I need to do more research on their 
ingredients but I assume they are made from milk whey. Definitely, not
paleo.
I guess most people would say why go with a processed food when meat is 
complete. I'm only looking at the convenience (need to say Kosher) and the 
cost.
[Ron] I think that will increase the likelihood of developing an immune
reaction to casein, but good luck with that.


With regards to my current diet I'm trying to concentrate on fish and fowl. 
Before every meal I take an Omega 3 capsule, every other day I eat 1 or 2 
eggs for breakfast, the other breakfasts I eat almond butter on flaxseed 
bread. That and some nuts, mainly brazil,walnuts and almonds. For lunch I 
usually eat a tin of sardines or mackerel with a bit of veggies,some pumpkin

and sunflower seeds and a fruit for desert. Mid-afternoon , another piece of

fruit. For supper I've been getting my wife to go along with fish/fowl or
beef 
with maybe one meal strictly vegetarian.

I started this "diet" search looking for a way to help with my
osteo-arthritis 
and I think this diet has helped me. Currently I'm reading one of those Zone

books and trying to decipher the science. He mentions maybe borage/primrose 
oil can help as well.


[Ron] You might try removing all gluten and dairy from your diet for 3 or 4
months to see if that reduces your arthritic pain.


Maybe there is someone out there who has experimented with adding these 
oils to their diet? 

[Ron] Yes, several list members, including myself, have experimented with
fish oil, borage oil, primrose oil, coconut oil, and flax oil  supplements. 
My experience is that fish oil seem to work best for me, but my primary
concern is now with food cravings, but I did struggle with arthritic pain
for the first 6 months or so after I was diagnosed with celiac disease  and
started avoiding gluten. 

Good luck with your journey of dietary discovery.


Best Wishes, 
Ron