Just remember that many people have different opinions on what the ACTUAL 
paleo diet was. Just because you slap a label on something and use selective 
(controversial and disputed) evidence doesn't mean that's what it actually 
was. 

All I want to establish is that it's disputed that books such as the Paleo Diet 
are actually what paleolithic man ate... I certainly never could imagine wanting 
to eat or ate so much meat. 

On Fri, 3 Jul 2009 22:57:12 -0500, Jim Swayze 
<[log in to unmask]> wrote:

>Want to know more about the paleo diet?  Read the book The Paleo Diet.
>
>Jim Swayze
>www.fireholecanyon.com
>Sent from my iPhone
>
>On Jul 3, 2009, at 10:43 PM, Padraig Hogan <[log in to unmask]>
>wrote:
>
>> On Fri, 3 Jul 2009 18:12:31 -0400, Paleo Phil <[log in to unmask]>
>> wrote:
>>
>>> On Thu, 2 Jul 2009 12:18:10 -0400, Padraig Hogan
>> <[log in to unmask]>
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>> ...
>>>> I suggest you read Man The Hunted and similar books which completely
>>>> overturn the idea of man hunting for meat, and stop getting your
>> information
>>>> from people suffering from metabolic syndrome off the internet and
>>>> off of
>>>> blogs.
>>>>
>>>
>>> Padraig, I'll read Man the Hunted if you read The Paleolithic
>>> Societies of
>>> Europe by Clive Gamble, in which extensive evidence is documented
>>> that
>>> Paleolithic peoples hunted, butchered and ate aurochs, bison,
>>> horse, bear,
>>> deer and other animals. I also recommend that you read about the
>>> problems
>>> with a fruitarian diet at http://beyondveg.com/cat/fruit-
dreams/index.shtml
>>> and the benefits of a diet based on meat/fat/organs in the writings
>>> of
>>> Vilhjalmur Stefansson.
>>>
>>
>> I could be wrong on this I bet those were confined mainly to late
>> paleolithic
>> times. Adult male humans have been hunted, butchered and eaten alive
>> by
>> leopards, lions, tigers, snakes, hyenas, bears, even wolves (despite
>> reports
>> you may have heard to the contrary for North American wolves) and so
>> on.
>> Now... the authors don't present views that we were all strict
>> fruitarians or
>> explicitly claim what paleo man ate, but they do support their
>> opinion that we
>> were all scaredy-cats hiding out in caves etc. and not hunting for
>> game too
>> much ourselves.
>>
>>> Despite knowing that you likely won't read Gamble's book or much of
>>> the
>>> other stuff, I bear no grudge against you, because I realized some
>>> time ago
>>> that fruitarians, vegetarians, vegans, and near-vegetarians are my
>>> greatest
>>> allies. Your and their eating of nutritionally deficient diets
>>> keeps the
>>> prices of meats, fats and organs down so that I can afford to feast
>>> on the
>>> foods I thrive best on. Your suffering ensures my salvation. I
>>> would like to
>>> offer my thanks to you for that (granted, I do eat some fruits,
>>> greens, nuts
>>> and such, so I would be more in your debt if you ate grains,
>>> legumes and
>>> dairy, but I won't quibble).
>>>
>>
>> And let me extend you my gratitude for keeping fruit prices down.
>>
>> To be honest I try to keep it to myself a lot, if every fruitarian
>> went out and
>> proclaimed it to the world then they'd convert so many people we'd
>> all have to
>> either eat processed foods or starve. However, I hate seeing my
>> fellow human
>> beings (those who are naturally low-protein probably more related to
>> me),
>> suffering to I try to proclaim it to those who will listen
>> anyway.... and
>> especially try to denounce misinformation about how paleolithic man
>> ate.
>>
>>> As a matter of fact, I've recently learned that I do better on a
>>> diet even
>>> lower in carbs and higher in meats & fats than I expected and have
>>> started
>>> to post here again to share my success. I had been eating lots of
>>> Paleo
>>> plant foods, including significant carbs, and a relatively lean
>>> diet (based
>>> in part on the fact that I didn't digest some fats well or like
>>> their taste
>>> or mouth feel). I had long suspected that wasn't optimal and I
>>> gradually
>>> shifted to a lower-carb, higher-fat diet with increasing amounts of
>>> fat and
>>> raw meat and have experienced remarkable improvements.
>>>
>>
>> I think it may be a bit like a movie or book that you think is
>> amazing and yet
>> you can't for the life of you understand why someone else hates it,
>> or vice
>> versa. As unbelievable as it may seem, people are just wired very
>> differently
>> sometimes and this extends to biology. Yes, some people really,
>> really do
>> better on a low-protein diet. You may be suffering from insulin and
>> adrenal
>> problems from earlier bad indiscretions in life such that you've
>> become super-
>> sensitive and the tiniest hint of carbs will get your insulin to
>> gush out, others
>> don't have that problem. Just find what's right for you and suits
>> you best.
>>
>>> Cutting out nightshades entirely proved quite beneficial. It was
>>> always a
>>> questionable food category to me, but for a while I thought that at
>>> least
>>> some of the nightshades were probably benign and maybe even
>>> healthy. Not
>>> long after I experienced benefits from eliminating them, Dr. Cordain
>>> reported research results that identifies nightshades as containing
>>> saponins
>>> and other antinutrients that contribute to gut permeability and
>>> autoimmune
>>> diseases like MS.
>>>
>>
>> I don't even know what nightshades are, but if they're not a fruit
>> then I
>> wouldn't be too shocked if they're bad for you. Fruits are the
>> nearly perfect
>> food (probably perfect in the wild), they are the food of choice for
>> all
>> primates.
>>
>>> I tried vegetarianism and near-vegetarianism years ago and did not
>>> do well
>>> on them. As for fruits, I find that if I eat too much fruit,
>>> especially
>>> sugary fruits like dried fruits and fruit juices, I develop lots of
>>> dead
>>> skin, placque, bleeding gums, etc., so a fruitarian diet is not for
>>> me, but
>>> you're welcome to it.
>>>
>>
>> I never really tried strict vegetarianism as I'm not a fanatic. I
>> think I will
>> always take more than one serving of fish per week. Fruit juices are
>> not fruit,
>> ESPECIALLY not ones that are sweetened... although I have often
>> picked up
>> delicious blueberry juice when they're out of season.
>>
>>>> Wild men are savages, savages hunt for meat... tribes hunt for
>>>> meat...
>>> clearly ...
>>>
>>> That's an ugly display of ethnocentrism toward traditional peoples
>>> on your
>>> part. Re: that I recommend you read Ishmael by Daniel Quinn.
>>>
>>
>> No, it wasn't that at all. My point was that it was that sort of
>> thinking that
>> helped propagate the idea of "Man the Hunter".
>>
>>> If you are one of the trolls that stop by this forum from time to
>>> time,
>>> you'll find your efforts to be a complete waste of time. As far as
>>> I can
>>> tell, none of the trolls has ever changed the mind of anyone here
>>> because
>>> the Paleo Diet and variations on it have been have been working for
>>> us and
>>> the trolls have been sorely lacking in evidence and good sense.
>>
>> Maybe it's because of the dogma that seems to be floating around
>> here and
>> the net in general that the Paleo Diet consisted of a very high
>> amount of meat
>> protein.