I guess the other problem with the butt-simulation theory is that,
really, it's just not that hard to look at a woman's butt.  The theory
seems to imply that men needed or could benefit from the movement of the
"butt-shaped zone" to somewhere where it was easier to see.  Considering
that, for a bipedal creature such as we, looking down is necessary
anyway to either look at the butt or breasts, half-a-dozen one way six
the other.  My point is that breasts are rather expensive.  Whatever
benefits they convey have to make up for the obvious problems they
create.  Why not just change the visual trigger (select for males who
"get it")?  After all, pubic hair is a nice, ventral visual trigger, as
well as the genitals themselves.  They aren't visible _during_ sex but
the key here is the getting together bit, I imagine once the copulation
has started, any more visual triggers must be unnecessary.  Are breasts
even that exciting, to a culture that sees them all day, everyday?  When
did clothing start anyway?  And I suspect that covering one's breasts
started after covering one's genitals.

Erik

On Thursday, March 14, 2002, at 02:30 AM, Todd Moody wrote:

> On Wed, 13 Mar 2002, Erik Hill wrote:
>
>>> Butt shaped - which before we became bipedal WAS the target.
>>> Animals -
>>> including humans before they became civilized and decided to talk
>>> during
>>> sex - use rear entry almost exclusively.  BUTTS were the target, so
>>> BUTT-shaped would be the visual trigger.
>>
>> human breasts simply don't resemble butts.  They just don't look like a
>> butt!  And since humans seem to prefer "vv" sex (ventral-vetral, if I
>> remember correctly, meaning front-to-front) it makes no sense why we
>> would be interested especially in butts.
>
> The butt-simulation theory states that v-v sex had an adaptive
> advantage, because it favors monogamy (i.e., it's less anonymous
> because you can see who you're with).  On this theory, however,
> our primate ancestors still routinely engaged in d-v
> (dorsal-ventral) sex, like other primates.  The woman's breasts
> favored the transition to v-v by making her ventral side more
> interesting to men.  This, at least, is what I remember from
> Desmond Morris.  I'm not sure I believe it, but that's the
> theory.
>
> Todd Moody
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>