"Esben Brun [log in to unmask] XXXXXXXXXXXXXXX" wrote:
>
> The issue of vegetarianism is not  trivial !

Not trivial, but often very 'odd' belief systems are involved.

> Is it ethical to kill animals?

Yes.

> ( when it is not necessary to survive ) ?

We need to define "survive". If we include "malnutrition" as "survival",
I think we have lost the plot. I see no higher morality in malnourishing
our species for some perceived "benefit" of another.

> Why do we condemn cruelty against animals - even legislate against it ?

Because it is appropriate to not be cruel to animals. Killing does not
equal "cruel". This is one of the major 'odd' belief fabrications of the
vegan dogma. They seem to have the belief that nature is all fluffy and
kind, living in harmony, not harming each other. Doh! Get real, nature
is more cruel than man can ever be. Most animals die an agonizing death
as someone else's dinner. And the "someone else" doesn't wait for you to
be dead to dine!

At least we have the opportunity (technology) to kill quickly and
"humanely".

> Animals are clearly  commonly regarded as more than mere  "meat
> production units" - namely as being more or less like ourselves !
>
> Yet I eat meat !

Me too - it is our nature.

> I try to buy free-range , organic "meat"  - or should I say :
> animals , conscious individuals. But I am not entirely comfortable
> with it  - I have more questions than answers.

Unfortunately, the meat industry tends to disregard animals and treat
them exactly as you say. (Badly.) I would much prefer to hunt my own
wild animals. To me that is the natural state. The animal lives a normal
life in its natural habitat until it becomes food for a predator - be
that predator man or beast. However, the truth probably is that man has
outgrown his evolutionary niche. If it were not for the huge number of
humans "surviving" on technology based foods, our species would have had
a major collapse ages ago.

> I remember , as a kid , watching a  pig-slaughtering  on a farm.
> Most of all I remember the warm smell of intestines when the bowel
> was cut up. Killing an animal is gory and grim ,

Yes, it is - but it is natural - just watch National Geographic.

> but perhaps part  of being human ?

I believe so. I feel zero guilt, and I'm not afraid to do the killing.

> However most people nowadays are totally alienated to this.

Exactly - and that is (IMHO) a major problem in modern society. Most
people think of "meat" as "stuff that comes wrapped in plastic from the
supermarket". They have no concept that it used to be alive, and had to
die to sustain them. They distance them self from this knowledge, and
create an artificial belief system that nature is so cuddly, friendly
and "co-operative".



bye for now,
Jim.
(10kg down, and I haven't even tried!)