>WTG Robert.  I too have lost over 80 on Atkins and am considering
>NeanderThin at the present.  Just got the book and have found it to be
>interesting and thought providing.
>
>As a former Atkid yourself, maybe you can relate to my concerns.
>
>The thought of adding fruit right now seems unimaginable and I am concerned
>about gaining weight.  The whole variety issue seems very appealing adding
>more fruit, veggies, and some nuts to the mix.  How did you address these
>issues?


I don't think there's an issue really.  Atkins NEVER, EVER, not even once,
suggests that you should go to 0 carbs.  And quite frankly, you can fit
quite a few low carb veggies into even the fairly strict limits.

If you are done losing weight, then I suppose you either know, or it is time
to figure out, exactly how many carbs you can eat before you start gaining
weight.  Usually, this is more than 20 a day, for some people, perhaps 100 a
day.  That can be a lot.  A small apple contains about 25 grams of carbs.  A
peach contains about 10 carbs.  Obviously, even the evil, sugarry fruit (yes
I'm kidding about evil, I eat tons of fruit) has few carbs.  But to be
honest, I think that Atkins oversimplified it a bit.

Atkins was worried about insulin and blood sugar levels (related of course)
being the cause of weight gain.  Maybe he's right.

But the old idea that a carb is a carb is a carb (at least in its effect on
blood sugar and insulin) is obsolete.  Different types of carbs (not just
differenet amounts) effect blood sugar and therefore insulin differently.

50 grams of apple carbs, for example, has a measurably lower effect on blood
sugar than 50 grams of refined sugar.  MUCH lower.  Read Mendosa's GIlist
(glycemic index) list.  Give me a sec, I will hunt it down for you ... ok...

Main GI (glycemic index) page is http://www.mendosa.com/gi.htm
and you can go straight to the list at:
http://www.mendosa.com/gilists.htm

So -- what this comes down to, is you can "get away with" more fruit (and
presumably more vegetable) based carbs than you could pure sugar, or, (if
you read the list, you'll see what I mean by this) any grain.  For example,
according to the list, enough cream of wheat (or mashed potatoes, for that
matter) to provide 50 free carbs (carbs excluding the fiber) gives a very
high index of 100, whereas a peach has a much lower GI index of 60.  Also,
note that it "takes more peach" to add up to 50 grams of free carbs than it
does mashed potatoes.  More precisely, it would take 544 grams worth of
peach (well over a pound!) to make up 50 free carbs worth of peach, but only
about 10 oz. of mashed potato.  Both the amount and type of carb affect
blood sugar, as I've said, so even even eating FEWER carbs worth of potato
(LESS than 10 oz. mashed potato) will have a greater effect on blood sugar
than 18 oz. of peach.

And fruit, nuts, and seeds have the highest glycemic indexes of any paleo
food.  Especially dried fruit.  Stay away from dried fruit.  And dates
(which are nature-dried fruit, really).  The vast majority of the food you
will be eating on the paleo diet has almost no effect on blood sugar at all
(meat, low carb veggies).  In fact, they are not even listed in the GI
lists.  No reason to really.

What I would do in your circumstance is to eat just low carb veggies and
meat, with small amounts of seeds, nuts, and fruit, and slowly increase the
fruit, nuts, and seeds until you gain weight.  There you go, now you will
know how much you can tolerate.  Then just eat less than that, and you will
be fine.

To make my life simple, I eat one or two ingrediant meals, sticking to the
paleo diet, eating plenty of meat and a substantial amount of low carb
veggies as well.

When it comes to fruit, seeds, and nuts, I tend to eat very little in the
winter (which is a paleo thing to do) and eat them in moderation in the
summer.  Nuts really fatten me up.  I tend to avoid them.  For variety I
create salads, which is a good way to get nutrition, variety, and creates a
nice "canvas" to throw small amounts of seeds or nuts onto.  If you just sit
there and eat nuts.. well, I don't know about you -- but I get fat.

I seem to be able to get away with much more fruit than nuts or seeds, which
makes sense.  I will have fruit-only meals in the summer.  Three or four
peaches, for example, a couple of apples or pears maybe.

>You may have seen me on ABC's 20/20 during the show on Atkins' diet.   I
>was
>the guy on the motorcycle who was one of the people profiled.  Atkins has
>been very good to me and I am pleased with my performance on the diet.  I
>am
>committed to lowcarb for the rest of my life but I struggle after almost a
>year and a half about variety.  I also want to realize the other health
>benefits I think I can gain from going Paleo.


The biggest positive thing about going paleo, as opposed to atkins, is more
variety, both for one's taste and also for ones nutrition.  Atkins requires
that you take vitamin pills.  Paleo doesn't.  There's a reason.


>
>The input of yourself and the rest of the group is welcomed.
>
>howardc
>294/211/???
>Atkid 6/10/98
>Non-Smoker 12/19/98

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