On Thu, 14 Mar 2002, Jim Swayze wrote:

> Todd> "Another irresponsible claim."
>
> You've made a case that Audette and Cordain were to a degree
> "irresponsible" and that they made false promises about how to lose weight.

Correct.

> I'm just going to talk about Audette.  I can see how one might see an
> irreconcilability to Ray's claim early on in the book that calories don't
> matter, that you can eat whatever quantities of whatever you want, and his
> later warning that to lose weight you had better watch the calories.

Actually, he doesn't say that.  He says to watch the carbs.  He
ignores calories, and is critical of the "thermodynamic"
conception of metabolism.  Nowhere in the book does he say that
to lose weight one should watch calories.

> But
> here's where I think you're confused.  Despite the title "Neaderthin"
> (which has always bothered me),  the book is NOT primarily a guide to
> weight loss.  Ray purpose in writing the book was to share his personal
> success in overcoming a host of maladies that have nothing to do with being
> overweight.

Agreed, although the full title of the book is "
Neanderthin : Eat Like a Caveman to Achieve a Lean, Strong,
Healthy Body."  One could certainly be excused for thinking this
is about weight loss.  However, you are right that the book is
about more than that.  Still, the book *does* have a lot to say
about weight loss; it may not be the only subject, but it is
certainly one of the main ones.  I don't think I'm confused on
this point.  After all, he didn't say "all you want, whenever you
want, unless you need to lose weight" or "all you want, whenever
you want, but not too much, and not too often."

> He addresses obesity as but one potential problem that results
> from our post-neolithic diet, and he proposes a specific solution to it
> later in the book.

He also presents as fact the unconfirmed conjecture that obesity
is an auto-immune disorder caused by dietary "foreign proteins."
He implicitly takes that claim back too, however, since if this
were the explanation of obesity, then carb intake wouldn't
matter, as long as they are paleo carbs.

> But first he wants to tell you how and why this diet
> will make each and every one of us a healthier human being.

Agreed.

> The book's full message on losing weight is that you can eat all you want
> until you have reached a plateau, at which point you have to consider
> caloric restriction.

That's a plausible approach, but it's not in Neanderthin.

> And Ray's recommendations on post-plateau weight loss
> seem to me to be solid:  Eat only fruits with low sugar content; drink
> fresh squeezed juices only; get the majority of your calories from lean
> meat, nuts, seeds, and oil; eat fatty fish such as salmon, herring,
> mackeral, tuna; eat MUFA-rich nuts such as almonds, macadamia, hazelnuts;
> consume olive oil and flaxseed oil.  Sounds like he's advocating a low
> calorie, high fat diet with an emphasis on Omega 3 fatty acids for weight
> loss.

I don't think so.  This is a high-calorie diet.

> I believe you've said before that you've tried this, that it doesn't
> solve your problem.

I have to restrict the nut consumption severely.  This is
difficult, so to lose weight I generally forget about them
altogether.

> That's fair.  Maybe Ray's wrong here, or maybe he
> isn't and there are other issues at work for you.  But claims of
> irresponsiblity on Ray's part are, if not outright false, at least diluted
> by the fact that he's not talking primarily to overweight folks.

Well, when he's talking about weight loss he *is* talking
primarily to overweight folks.  There is also the cholesterol
issue.  While not everybody believes that cholesterol levels and
ratios are important to health, many people do.  In fact, Ray
Audette apparently thinks so, too.  Nevertheless, at least some
ways of doing Neanderthin are likely to raise LDL cholesterol
levels, and people should be informed about that.  This is one of
the reasons why Cordain, for example, advises restriction of
saturated fat, which can also worsen insulin resistance, it
seems.

There is much that is good in Neanderthin; I especially like the
material on adaptation to animal foods, gut-brain ratio, and the
like.  But the details matter.

Todd Moody
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