In a message dated 2/13/2007 12:15:19 PM Eastern Standard Time, 
[log in to unmask] writes:
I believe it is considered pre-diabetic by Dr. Bernstein. Todd Moody also
considers it problematic and he appears to have researched this topic
thoroughly.

> I believe
> Mr. Stanley made that point on another forum  - that his FBG 
> is neither diabetic 
> nor pre-diabetic.  Also, perhaps the reference ranges should 
> differ for 
> someone following such a unique diet. 

That would be an easy copout for any diet--if your stats are suboptimal,
just increase the reference range because of your "unique diet." If a
carnivorous dieter could use that excuse then a vegetarian could as well.

For anyone who believes the evolutionary theory of nutrition has some basis,
the best health reference ranges for all humans are those of the traditional
hunter-gatherer groups and human neonates (infants to adolescants). Dr.
Bernstein found that a FBG range of 70-85 was optimal for his patients. I
don't know what the hunter-gatherer or neonate data is, but my guess is it
would be similar. Maybe Todd can provide some info on that.

The point is that it's not just carbs that contribute to insulin resistance
and diabetes. The studies are showing that it's the *casein* protein (and
perhaps other factors) in dairy foods as well. This could easily explain why
Stanley has higher FBG than is optimal, given that cheese is one of his
staple foods. 

All-animal-food diets are NOT the same as Paleo diets. Paleolithic people
did NOT eat significant amounts of dairy foods. Someone who eats meats,
organs, eggs and dairy foods is essentially eating a pastoral, rather than a
I am aware of Dr. Bernstein's views and those of others who believe 99 is not 
an optimal BFG -- but differing minds and experts differ on this. I tend to 
agree with Dr. Bernstein within the context of diabetes -- but Mr. Stanley says 
he is not a diabetic and that his fasting glucose has been the same for 
years.  Therefore,  I still maintain that there is far too much missing information 
with Mr. Stanley's bloodwork to draw any firm conclusions without repeated 
fasting insulin and HBA1C to see what the blood glucose is averaging over a 
period of weeks -- not just on a single blood draw day. We also do not know how 
long he fasted before the blood draw.  And even stress levels can elevate 
fasting glucose -- if he had a sleepless night or other stress before the draw, 
there could be an impact.  I also think you are oversimplifying Dr. B's words.  I 
have read his books and participated in one of his telephone conference calls 
(highly recommended!) -- he speaks of varying ranges and different ranges 
apply to different types of diabetes.  For example  Dr. B. gives slightly higher 
ranges for his Type 1s -- for those that don't have his books -- much info can 
be found on his website.  He specifically mentions in a Q&A on his site that 
he generally targets FBG of 90 for insulin-dependent Type 1s.  He mentions that 
he assigns his patients a target FBG level -- I did not get the impression 
that it is a one size fits all approach.  Also, targets for diabetics are not 
necessarily the same as for non-diabetics.  Example: Dr. B explains that too low 
a fasting glucose can be dangerous for DIABETICS because a few points of a 
drop could produce grave results.  This can be found in the Articles section of 
his website.     Anyway, I would agree that if someone is truly concerned 
about their FBG -- they should get thoroughly checked out ie glucose tolerance 
test, fasting insulin, HBA1C...AND buy Dr. B's books. 
Regarding purported copouts -- I was merely raising the possibility that 
unique diets can produce unique bloodwork.  Example: There's a fellow on the 
lowcarb forum that Mr. Stanley used to post on that is practicing Calorie 
Restriction and he posts his extremely unique bloodwork.  He is only in his 20s and is 
the youngest member of a CR study -- so he is repeatedly getting his blood 
work done and is monitored by his physician, and meticulously records all the 
data.  Some consider his blood results which do deviate from what is generally 
condiered "optimal" as evidence that he is malnourished and hypothyroid and on 
the brink of physical collapse -- yet his physician  claims he is one of the 
healthiest people he's ever seen. Point is -- no physician or person should just 
rely on a purported "optimal" reference range to determine health status.  
Example: Suddenly introducing copious amounts of  seaweed or other iodine 
sources can create a rise in thyroid antibodies on labwork.. it can also 
dramatically raise B12 levels to above the so-called "normal" blood levels. Example: 
Japanese women who drink lots of green tea tend to have much higher serum SBHG 
levels.   Example:  When first embarking upon a low-carb diet, some people will 
see a transient temporary spike in cholesteral which lowers over time. Are 
these examples true for everyone? Of course not -- the point I was trying to 
convey is that it is possible that a highly unusual diet could produce odd 
bloodwork.  As for vegetarians -- there are vegetarians who maintain excellent health. 
 My foray into vegetarianism many years ago was an utter disaster -- but 
different strokes.  
I never said that only carbs contribute to insulin resistance.  I think 
inactivity, genetics, excessive calories may all contribute as well.  Maybe dairy 
does in some people -- but  Dr. Bernstein absolutely recommends full-fat dairy 
products so long as one counts the carbs in them. He, unlike Cordain, has 
specific experience treating actual patients with diabetes, insulin resistance, 
etc. over a number of years.  Also,  Wolfgang Lutz MD who has treated thousands 
of patients - many diabetics --  also recommends full fat dairy products.  
Indeed, his book emphasizes the unique benefits of butter.  Another example -- 
Barry Groves' website contains all kinds of studies where type 2 diabetics 
normalized on diets containing predominantly saturated fat with the inclusion of 
full fat dairy.  Does this mean that dairy is a necessary or healthy food for 
everyone? Of course not - but neither does it mean that it's dangerous for 
everyone either.  I agree with you completely however that no way can dairy be 
considered a paleolithic food. I also found it strange that Mr. Stanley would 
quote Stefansson's year-long experiment when Stefansson specifically requested 
that dairy and eggs NOT BE ALLOWED.  I also do not agree with Mr. Stanley's 
contention that his unique diet is that of a carnivore  -- dairy is NOT meat/flesh 
in my view.  I think it's no accident that eggs and dairy always appear on 
lists of most allergenic foods.