Robert Cohen 1-888-not-milk wrote:
>
> Ilya wrote:
>
> > The amount of protein in butter IS trace. If you honestly believe
> that
> > this isn't so, then you definitely have a court case on your hands
> as
> > butter is labeled 0 protein (which basically means <1g).
> > If you are going to insist that I am still wrong please back it up
> > with facts.
>
> Dear Ilya,
>
> You seem to enjoy analogies. The average female (human) produces
> 500,000 nanograms of ESTROGEN per day. That is approximately 1/2000th
> of a gram.
> Can I then conclude that women have no estrogen?
No you can't. There is an appropriate range for substances in various
contexts. For daily protein intake the typical range is 60-150gm,
depending on your size and level of physical activity. Compared to
that <1gm of protein is trace. For milk comparison it's also trace,
which is what I was driving at. One 8oz glass of milk will give you
10gm of protein (if memory serves right), 1/3 oz of butter (that's
8oz divided by your factor of 21) does NOT contain 10gm of protein.
So, compared to milk (which is what we were comparing it to) butter
DOES indeed contain only trace amounts of protein.
> Protein hormones work on a nano-molecular basis...just like the
> hallucinogenic substance, LSD, it does not take much to produce an
> enormous effect.
I am beginning to feel that you are doing the same style of arguing
that convinced me to stop responding a few months ago. Once any of your
points gets on the shaky ground you launch into 'milk is horrible for
you for all these multitudes of reasons'. The problem is, that
does nothing for the point being discussed (like the milk equivalence
dairy consumption in US). The other problem is that I am NOT arguing
that
milk is without problems. I just want to have facts about it. If it
turns out that some dairy products are just fine, or that some problems
are due to human processing, rather than inherent to dairy itself, then
I can make an informed decision about what to eat and what not to eat.
As for your protein point here - you are not seriously suggesting that
all the protein in milk is hormones??? If 10gm per glass (small glass
at that) does not seem to produce large hormonal responce, then a
trace amount in butter (as compared to milk)is even less likely to do
so.
> One 12 ounce glass of milk contains 3000 nanograms of IGF-I, our most
> powerful growth hormone. Drink that glass of milk and you double the
> existing levels of IGF-I naturally present (and unbound) in the
> average adult body.
Try to keep the line of discussion, which is milk equivalence of
dairy consumption, not 'milk is horrible'. As for IGF-I. I don't
remember off hand what the amounts floating in the human body are.
Lets say that 3000 nanograms is it (though I think it's quit a bit
higher -
my endo textbook lists it at 200ng/ml serum). What I do remember is that
IGF-I is produced in the body in responce to GH. If I recall correctly,
it is also destroyed fairly quickly. As with many other hormones the
level
of free unbound hormone is not very meaningfull. Simple example, DHEA,
a fairly popular hormonal supplement right now, is very quickly sulfated
in the body. The levels of non-sulfated, unbound DHEA are miniscule.
Doubling them would be equally meaningless, as it simply reflects the
fact that the liver has not sulfated it yet. The important question is
'How does the amount of IGF-I in the milk compare to that produced in
the human body over the course of a day?' The other important question
is
'How does this affect humans?' Remember, there are plenty of people out
there (from life extensionists to body builders) who try to get their
IGF-I levels up because they believe it has various beneficial effects.
> IGF-I is identical (70 amino acids/same gene sequence) in humans and
> cows. It is the only hormone among 4000 mammals (hundreds of
> thousands of hormones) that I am aware of as being identical.
And this is a good thing, btw. If you are going to get a hormone
into your body you might as well get one that your body knows how
to deal with. As for the only hormone being the same, I believe
there are plenty of others. Thyroid hormones are common to most
vertebrates, not just mammals, for example.
> Butter is concentrated milk.
No it's not - it's concentrated milk fat.
> More than 80 compounds have been
> identified in butter. Thes include protein hormones, alcohol,
> aldehydes, esters of various acids, lactones and sulpher compounds.
So? Most of these are perfectly safe (many usefull), certainly in the
amounts
present in butter.
Ilya
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