Dear Ilya,

I'll try to keep up with you...each time I say something you go into ten
different tangents which works well for a telephone conversation but
gets kind of crazy for EMAIL.

Ilya wrote:

One 8oz glass of milk will give you 10gm of protein (if memory serves
right), 1/3 oz of butter (that's 8oz divided by your factor of 21) does
NOT contain 10gm of protein.

OKAY...8 ounces of milk (224 grams) contains 87 percent water (195
grams).  Four of the remaining percentage points represent casein.  So,
for every 8 ounce glass of milk we drink 896 million nanograms of
casein, agreed?

Now...the average woman has 500,000 nanograms of estrogen in her body.

Please answer this question...Do you (or your books) indicate that
casein has a negative effect on the human body?

What is your appropriate range of casein intake?  Please teach me as I
am ignorant in this area.  IN OTHER WORDS, HOW MUCH ELMER'S GLUE DOES
THE book SAY is safe for us to drink?

So, compared to milk (which is what we were comparing it to) butter
DOES indeed contain only trace amounts of protein.

I agree, but if something is bad for you then trace amounts could be
poison.

I am beginning to feel that you are doing the same style of arguing
that convinced me to stop responding a few months ago. Once any of your
points gets on the shaky ground you launch into 'milk is horrible for
you for all these multitudes of reasons'.

Excuse me...Shaky ground?  If milk contains powerful growth hormones and
allergenic proteins and that has been well documented, why would you or
anybody else so informed continue to ingest those proteins?  Because the
product tastes good with cookies or goes well with crusty French bread?
If you know that just a little bit can be a problem and agree, what are
we arguing about?

The problem is, that does nothing for the point being discussed (like
the milk equivalence dairy consumption in US).

You're not paying attention.  If you eat one pint of ice cream or one
pint of milk do you imagine that each represents the same number of
calories, fat, cholesterol or concentrated hormones?  One pint of milk
and one pint of ice cream are not equivalent.

 As for your protein point here - you are not seriously suggesting that
> all the protein in milk is hormones???

No, I am not.  I've already described the three most abundant proteins
in milk as casein, lactalbumin and lactoglobulin.  Every sip of milk
also contains 7 pituitary hormones, 7 steroid hormones, 8 hypothalamic
hormones, 10 gastrointestinal peptides, 6 thyroid and parathyroid
hormones and at least 11 growth factors including IGF-I.  For a complete
list, Visit my website.

THESE HORMONES work on a nanomolecular scale.  I apologize if this
offends you but I do not think that so many hormones belong in your
body.
I would not recomment that you take them in pill form or inject them or
ingest them by drinking body fluids from another species of animal.

If 10gm per glass (small glass at that) does not seem to produce large
hormonal responce, then a trace amount in butter (as compared to milk)is
even less likely to do so.

I disagree with you.  Does not seem???What does that mean?

> Try to keep the line of discussion, which is milk equivalence of
> dairy consumption, not 'milk is horrible'. As for IGF-I. I don't
> remember off hand what the amounts floating in the human body are.

THERE ARE APPX. 500,000 NANOGRAMS OF IGF-I in the adult body.
Most are bound to other protein receptors within a second or so of their
synthesis.  Free IGF-I at any time is about 3000 nanograms, according to
Frystyk.  IGF-I in milk remains bioactive for up to 30 minutes as a
factor of casein protection and micronized liposomes (through
homogenization).

> Lets say that 3000 nanograms is it (though I think it's quit a bit
> higher -my endo textbook lists it at 200ng/ml serum). What I do remember is that IGF-I is produced in the body in responce to GH.

Not necessarily...it's in the saliva and synthesized by many different
organs and tissues working in an endocrine, parocrine and autocrine
function.

If I recall correctly, it is also destroyed fairly quickly.

Yep. but in milk it is "protected" and lasts quite a bit longer.

As with many other hormones the level of free unbound hormone is not
very meaningfull.

Hmm...IGF-I is the MOST powerful growth hormone in the human body and
has been identified by many cancer researchers as the key factor in the
growth and proliferation of every type of human cancer...and you say
that is not meaningful?  Who wrote your endocrinology textbook,
Kervorkian?
(Sorry, Don, just kidding).

Simple example, DHEA, a fairly popular hormonal supplement right now, is
very quickly sulfated in the body. The levels of non-sulfated, unbound
DHEA are miniscule.

Here we go into another tangent...I'l dance with you for a while...So
would dietary IGF-I which is quite popular.  The acid in our stomach
does a wonderful job of breaking these proteins down into their basic
amino acids.  Milk buffers gastric pH and protein hormones survive.  Eat
'em in a pill or as a supplement and they are "destroyed."