THE LONDON GUARDIAN 6 APRIL 2000
Boxing clever with Bruno and Burundi
South Africa's former president takes time out from fundraising to talk of
his role as a mediator, and Africa's growing independence
Anthony Sampson
Wednesday April 5, 2000
Nelson Mandela seemed leaner and fitter at 81 than he was during his time as
president of South Africa, as he talked to the Guardian yesterday in
Kensington, where he is staying with a wealthy supporter.
Relaxing in his customary flowery Indonesian open shirt, he insists that he
is enjoying his retirement and the opportunities to speak his mind. But he
shows little sign of seeking to interfere with his successor, Thabo Mbeki,
as some friends had expected.
Mr Mandela is in London on a private visit - his first since he retired as
president last June - seeing old friends and making a speech about Africa at
the London School of Economics tomorrow morning. He will then weekend in the
country before flying to Dublin to be awarded an honorary doctorate at
Trinity College.
While in London, he is raising funds for his recently launched Mandela
Foundation by approaching rich businessmen, friends and British boxers,
including Frank Bruno. "American boxers have been very generous," he
explained, "now it is the turn of the British."
As always, he enjoys harking back to his life before he went to jail in
1962. "Tony [Sampson] and I first met in a shebeen," he told one of his
colleagues. But he seemed especially pleased that Frank Bruno was waiting to
see him.
He is still much concerned with trying to bring peace to Burundi, where the
government of Tutsis, who make up only 14% of the population, dominates the
Hutu majority. In 1994, as many as 800,000 ethnic Tutsis died at the hands
of the Hutus.
Since retiring as president, he has been mediating in Burundi's six-year
civil war. Recently, he has become much more outspoken in his criticism of
the president of Burundi, Pierre Buyoya. "We need to be a little bit tough
with them," he said yesterday. "It's unacceptable to me, having been in
prison for 27 years, to be dealing with someone who has detained without
trial thousands of people, some of them for three years."
He has become impatient with the negotiating process and with the number of
delegates involved. "The problem there is that you've got small parties,
some of them just a man and a wife, with no members. The negotiations are a
means of earning a livelihood, and they're not in a hurry for a solution,
because it means that all that comes to an end."
He has been in frequent touch with western leaders, including France's
Jacques Chirac, Tony Blair and the Foreign Office minister Peter Hain over
Burundi. He has special praise for President Bill Clinton, who "made a
terrific impact".
"I'm trying to teach Europe how to help matters, how to speak with one
voice, so that we would not undermine one another as the west is doing in
the Middle East. So far as Burundi is concerned, they're doing very well."
He remains hopeful of a settlement. "Buyoya is a very shrewd chap. These
things are sensitive. He does not want a change in the status quo. But I
have now moved them, and a breakthrough is in the offing."
But Mr Mandela is much less hopeful about the Democratic Republic of the
Congo, where he was closely involved as president in seeking peace. "The
Congo was unfortunate. Because when Angola, Namibia and Zimbabwe decided to
send in troops to help [the Congolese president, Laurent] Kabila, I made it
clear that neither Kabila and his friends nor the rebels and their
supporters - Uganda and Rwanda - would win.
"All that would happen was that they would destroy the infrastructure,
prevent development, slaughter innocent civilians. They are going to reduce
that country to ashes. And after that they will sit down and talk. I said:
'Why can't you sit down and talk now?' and the best thing to do was that the
five foreign armies should withdraw."
"They are still there. Kabila's friends say: 'Let Uganda and Rwanda pull out
first, because we only went there at the invitation of [the] head of state.'
I say: 'It's not a question of who invited you, it's a question of getting
all the foreign armies out. The best thing is that all of you should pull
out at the same time.' But they did not.
"There is now a decision to send about 5,000 UN troops and South Africa, if
she is asked, will contribute a force. But the situation inside the Congo is
such that we can't send our army there unless they respect the existing
agreement, which they don't. So they would go there to fight, and we're not
prepared for that. The UN is not going to send a force as peacekeepers
unless there is peace. But the government and rebels together with their
allies are now resuming the fighting. It is a problem."
Mr Mandela still sees western powers as complicating Africa's problems by
seeking to interfere in their interests. "Many countries are receiving
financial assistance from the old mother countries and from the US, and
therefore they are not confident enough to challenge them.
"That is a real problem because although some heads of state are outspoken
in criticising the vestiges of colonialism, the majority do not want to
offend their benefactors and tend to keep quiet.
"Nevertheless, Africa has produced very competent and experienced leaders
who are rising to the challenge who feel that the time has come to handle
their own affairs without interference, and they are succeeding in that.
That is the overall picture, whatever criticisms you may have."
Mr Mandela hopes that, with a Burundi agreement, he will be able to enjoy
his retirement fully. "Three other countries have asked me to sort out their
problems, but I"m not going to do so," he says.
. Anthony Sampson is the author of Mandela: The Authorised Biography, to be
published in paperback by HarperCollins next month.
Guardian Unlimited © Guardian Newspapers Limited 2000
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