In other words God/Allah is conducting research on his creation. Ergo, we
are only significant to her and NOT ourselves. What success are we working
toward again?????
I think brother Sidibeh is unto something Suntou. The Shaitan/devil is the
conflicts within Ourselves and not a countervailing force of divine research.
Haruna. I just remembered the landscape project is not quite complete. My
son has brought two key points to my attention. One is divine, and the other is
process. I shall share them with you my friends under appropriate topic.
In a message dated 5/6/2008 5:47:28 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time,
[log in to unmask] writes:
Brother Edie, if you are following me, i am taking a sequence. i am coming
to the questions you asked.
what is imperative is that we understand our relationship with god and then
with the Satan. You don't need to worry about the temptations of the Satan if
you fully understand what God expects of you. The reality of the state of
the human being is such that, we are given a freedom to choose between good and
evil. that is part of our privilege creation. since you are using practical
examples to explain our responsibilities as humans, i will do likewise to
decode other issues.
Mr sidibe, we all know that nothings comes that free, we work hard for our
success. suppose you work in a factory that manufacture mobile phones. your
boss told you that i trust you that you will not steal any phone. and he fix
some cameras to monitor you whilst you work. this cameras cover every angle of
the work place. but you know unless some thing major happens your boss will
not check the camera records. you start to steal some phones once in a while.
your boss never caught you but your actions are on tape.
you work for that company until you are retired. your boss then plan a send
off for you. he never knew what bad things you have done.he trusted you to do
what is right with all the temptation to steal few phones.
similarly, God's decision to let the devil tempt us is a test brother Edie.
that test is the measure of our determination to obey him or obey our nemesis
the devil. we cannot just be created to obey god, without any test, that
will not make us any different from other animals.
the test is the key for our success or failure in the hereafter. just like we
are given exams in schools or universities.
the point you stated concerning " no one will go to hell" is a concept that
the nation of Islam preaches. but the reality is that ,hell is a place for
punishment and cleansing. we should all pray that God forbid us from entering
into it.
men like pol pot,Mobutu, HITLER COMMITTED ACTS WHICH ARE horrible yet no one
has punished them for their actions, do you believe that those men will not
get judged by their creator?
as Muslims we believe that hell is a test for all believers. those who obey
the commandments of GOD will be blessed with paradise and others with hell.
but the decision to either punish or bless lies only in god's hand. the
creation of the devil or Satan is part of test. he is needed to test the obedience
and promise of man. all that the devil tempt men can be substitute with what
is allowed by god. for instance, instead of adultery one can marry. instead
of consuming alcohol one can drink juice or water. etc. i will continue later.
the real issue here is why and how men give their life to the Satan, be it
in the name of arts and creativity, or entertainment,wars,wealth,fame and over
zealousity. we shall take a sequence.thanks
since you are using practi
Edie Sidibeh <[log in to unmask]> wrote:
Thank you again Mr.Touray for your clarification on the issue of faith.
However sir, you did not answer my question but pondering on the same old story I
have heard over and over again. What I am asking is the reason why God take
us out of the Garden to earth? also as why should God let satan to exist if
He/She did not Obey His will? God says that, everything on earth is an example
of that we will have in heaven.
Taking that to consideration, When swomeone works for a company for certain
period and at the end does not want to Obey the company's regulations
disagreeing with the owners and the owners have no other choice than sending Him/her
packing, should the company be mandated to paying him continuously for life
or should it be for certain period? Again God says before you worship me, you
should "try" to know me first.
Again, knowing someone or somebody those not come in a silver plate but
asking a clarity about him and why he does certain thing that does not motivate
you to follow what he/she is preaching concerning your interest. Some people
will be critical if one will asked certain question regarding God, some will
tell that God doesn't want you to asked many questions but to believe Him. Of
course I believe in God as well as the prophets but the stories that
preachers said are those that are confusing, as such, if God took us out of the
Garden because we are sinful, why will He take us back while we are not clean?
Again, my stupid logic told me that, GOD GAVE US THE SENSES WE ARE USING TO
THINK FEEL TOUCH SEE AND HEAR. These are things that we can use to know what
is right and wrong, therefore, why do we need Satan to influence us WHILE THE
BRAIN IS THERE TO ASSIST OUR SENSES? If something is term wrong it therefore
satanic but anything good is Godly, in this way who will take responsibility
if something goes wrong hence Satan is more powerful than we are. Therefore,
everybody should go to heaven because we are powerless to resist things we
cannot see feel or touch and hear.
That is why God said between me and you no one will go to hell, because He
knows that we are our own Satan for that matter He said only between you and
your fellow human-being will take you to hell.
Again thanks for your time.
/Brother Edie, you are a very humble person. We are all students in this
global village. Be proud with what you know and express it so that others can
learn from you. The topic has been expanded. We shall include every thing
relevant here. Our learned brothers are a bit miserly, they don't easily part with
knowledge. Haruna is one educated brother.
Coming to the real issue of our relationship as human beings with the Devil
or Satan. i will put it in a story form but it is how the scholars of Islam
explained it.
Long before man was created ,a being was among the angels. Angels don't
disobey the commands of God. They are created that way. The duties assigned to is
done to perfection and they engage in the glorification of God all their
life's. Among the Angels was the Devil or Satan or Jinn. He was created from
Fire. He served among the Angels ,at one point rose to be among the leadership.
What causes a high ranking being among the Angels to be banished to
oblivion? God in his infinite plans, started creating our ancestor Adam. As Muslims
we believe that God created Adam with his own hands. when Adam was laying in a
form of clay or mud. the Angels will be wondering what being God is
creating. The Satan started to be jealous of Adam has he lay in a lifeless form. It
is reported that, The Satan usually point its finger at Adam's Tummy saying "
i don't know what is this but if any thing his tummy will be a big temptation
for him". to this many scholars said, the Satan's words proof true against
us as humans, our quest for livelihood make us do many horrendous things. all
we pursue in life is related to our happiness and comfort. from thief's to
murderer.
When Adam was completed to the human form, God then created a soul. The soul
is not from God. The soul is created. Then Adam's soul is breath into him.
Then God authorised the Angels and Satan to prostrate to Adam. God created us
with honour and respect. To this request the Angels fall down and prostrated.
But the Satan refused.
He disobeyed the command of God. This is a serious issue but the Satan was
ready to face any consequences. He was asked, why did you refuse to obey the
command of God? his answer, which is similar to what many human beings say to
day is " i am better than him, you created me from fire and him from clay".
God told the Satan ," i know things you don't know". but the Satan was
adamant. It refuse to bodge. He sealed his faith. What is the difference between
committing a sin and falling in a state of disbelief? to commit a sin one
knowingly do an act that he is forbidden from doing. to commit disbelief or
kuffur, one denies the the validity of there being any wrong in his or her action.
he/she don't belief the commands are reasonable and valid. this is disbelief.
an example, God command Muslims not to commit fornication and adultery. we
as humans have many temptations. one way or the other, you find yourself
committing fornication. you accepts that it is wrong but you followed your desire
and commit a major sin in Islam which has a stipulated punishment in here and
the hereafter. but still you do it. That is a sin.
but if you don't belief that fornication is a sin and that why should it be
a sin? it is a relationship between two consenting adult, it is unreasonable
for God to regard it a sin, then you have disbelief and disregard God's
commandments and his validity and existence.
What the devil did was the later. He told God, i am better than Adam
,meaning human. i am made of fire, still coming to the discrimination issue. the
statement of the devil is thus, you God made a mistake. you were irrational and
unjust to tell me to bow down to an inferior creation of yours. whom he
thought don't deserve any honour from him.
God then asked him the Satan, what do you want? i reward you now all the
past deeds you have done or later? he opted for a condition that He the Satan
live till dooms day. that wish of him was granted. Before parting he made a
promise to God. That is " i will make all the offspring of Adam, the man who is
responsible for my banishment to disobey you" .God replied ,you can only make
those who listen to you disobey me.
this is the condition we are in Edie. God never abandon us as humans. he
through out our existence have send men among us with his message, his guidance
and word.
what is important for us as people to realise is that, God has given us a
brain. that set us apart from all other creatures. we can differentiate what is
good and what is not depending on our state of mind. we can take time to
read the books containing the words of God, we can take time and asked those who
spend their time learning about God and the way to him. this is all our
choice. but let no one mistake the words of God's punishment for disobeying him.
there is a hell fire and there is paradise. there is a day of judgement. yes
we may not be able to do acts that will guarantee us paradise but obeying
God's commandment is an indication that we held him high and respect his words.
i will continue later brother Edie. thanks a lot.
Edie Sidibeh wrote:
Thanks again Suntu,
I am not doing this to offend anyone but to clear my doubt on certain issue
regarding religion in general. I am really in a confusion stage and I need a
refurbishment from anyone as knowledgeable to set me free as a result, God
will reword you for opening the eyes of a blinded stupid person like me.
If however, the story of Adam and Eve is to go by like it was narrated by
both Islam Christianity, God took us out of the heaven due to our sins so as to
get our acts together before He took us back, then do you think He will
accept us while we are still dirty? I think anyone who died, has completed his
mandates, that is to say, he/she is clean from the sin to take his or her place
in heaven. We who are still alive, need to complete our mandates like those
who went before us. Therefore, if a person is dead, we should thank God for
him because he/she have pass the exam to live in eternal life forever.
God says as well, the wisest among you will gain from my unlimited gifts on
earth as well as heaven. Now who are the wisest, on earth? people who
manufactured planes cars technological equipment etc which are benefiting to
millions of people, upon that, they manufactured politics using it as a weapon to
strengthen their positions. However, I am not saying that the white people are
as well the ones to go to heaven, because I think going to heaven needs the
recognition of your higher self, your Creator. Recognising that what ever you
manufactured was created by Him hence without him bringing you to this earth,
those products will never be manufactured.
Africa for example, is the richest continent in the globe yet the poorest
continent, Why? simply because white people came to us, fool us, and teach us
their political languages to be use as official language, and teaches us the
politics that we know nothing about and the few that were wise among us were
assassinated through the help of the white man by their own people so that
they can continued dealing with fools.
However, in recently era, there came lots who are wiser in the system and
eager for changes but failed in using the politic wisely to gain but wanted to
challenge head-on to get what they rightfully own and in doing that, they end
up hurting their own people. What I am trying to say is the fact that
whoever God blessed no one can take that but to work with them wisely by using
their own tools of politic they teaches use to whip them hence for now, we cannot
manufacture our own politic which will be contrary to theirs. All this
religious countries are using western democracy one way or the other because of
its power and influences it carries.
The Kingdom of Saudi have never ever stage an election but due to the
pressure from the west, they recently stage one as well as giving rights to women
to vote and hold higher positions in strategic areas. Do they have the need to
do that with vast amount of wealth in their disposal? yes they do because
they wanted to use the politic to pave their ways through the skin of the west.
Therefore, African leaders should open up their eyes and stop challenging
but work with these God given people by studying and using their politic
against them wisely to take our rightfull position in the club. This is my own
logic on what need to be done as well as the truth I think is how things are in
reality.
Edi
SUNTOU TOURAY wrote:
Thanks Edie. you raise interesting issues as well. you are brave to state
your notion on religion and faith. since i am a bit short of time ,i will
respond later in detail. i know a lot about the marabout business. they are unlike
the field of studies you alluded to but still a wonderful take. from what
you wrote, i can see our difference in the understanding of agida. the Islamic
creed. the quran explicitly stated the existence of parallel beings,the
jinns. we as Muslims must accept that teaching. i hope more learned brothers here
like mo baldeh and others can elaborate on that but whatever the case i will
comment later.
Edie Sidibeh wrote: Good piece of writing my dear Suntu and may God bless
you for refurbishing people's mind on this sensitive issue.
Then again Suntu I have a doubt as such, who gave that magical power? did
they create those powers for themselves? God gave power to people to make guns
yet guns kills, He gave power to people to make cars planes boats yet those
creations are not completely save for human consumption. He gave us mouth,
hands, brains, legs and all the organs to use them in-order to make our lives
easier.
He also said we should use these above powers if it will make our lives
easier in "good manner" by using our brains he created and eye. He also said that
those whom he have guided will never be misled right. Therefore, I think,
those who goes to the serigns or marabout is also His creation to have the guts
to go there and give the money they are giving to get blessing in return if
that also will make their lives easier. God is more powerful than the
serigns, therefore, whoever God have guided, will never be influence by tricking of
the marbouts with their magics. If God did not agree with you going to
Marbouts you will not be able to do it because He is the ruler of your life and
have created you and whatever you do. Preachers also can be of the same category
because lots of them are rich from the donation given by their followers,
Presidents, directors, ministers, name just few are all using the power given
to them by God and is only few of them who are using their
brains and eyes for that matter.
Why is Satan created? is it just to say all bad influences are created by
him and Good ones by God? Logically, Satan is a fake or a cooked product to
play with people's mind by saying oh whatever good is God but whatever bad is
created by Satan. Satan never exist we are our own Satan hence we have the
brain and eyes to think and to see and realised what is Godly and not.
Traditionally, we are praying because we were born seeing our fore fathers doing it and
that is great because faith can move mountain and can make one happy
especially the poor who without faith will have shorter life.
Why will God create you after knowing already that you are going to the hell
fire? what is the use of Him creating you? God loves us very much and will
not take anyone to hell fire, because if you do bad, you will see it before
you die and if you do good is only good that will follow you. Is only we humans
who are always hesitant by looking at what others have and you don't, that
is why He said as well do not look at people who are over you but those who
are bellow you and always pray for them to be at the stage you are, in this
way, God will guide you and bless your progress. He said as well no one will get
to the hell fire because of Him but between you and your fellow human-being
will, hence He cannot forgive what you did to your fellow human-being. I
think whatever one did bad, will see it before dead overtake you, either in your
life time or the period of you dead when the angel will take your breath away
but you must pay for all what you did because God need you
clean not while you are dirty.
Edi
SUNTOU TOURAY wrote:
The mystical fellows in our communities has been with us since when we
cannot remember. Many among us have dealt with them, we have one way or the other
consulted them. but do you really know what sort of things this men are
doing? what is that we know about the serigns or marabout or moro's? this infamous
topic i will call who dares talk. why did i gave it that strange title? it
have to do with the strong believe that people has in the powers of this men.
from a perspective of Islam, this people can be categorise into two groups.
those who engage in acts of prayers and good actions and maintain the
spiritual standard required of a learned Muslim. they conduct their acts in
accordance with authentic sunnah or ways of the prophets. they never claim any powers
or means extra-ordinary, when people ask them for prayers or duaas, they
never hesitate to explain their human limitations. all they do is ask God's
favour for that particular person. this group of marabouts are very few. to
attain high status and closeness to God has many requirements. among them is
consuming what is lawful and that which is acquire without deception and/or
falsehood. in short eating from halal earnings. this is a monumental task for all
believers.
the second categories of marabouts/seriegns is the mystical masters. they
always have an air of piety with them. they direct people to them self. they
demand money always. they use tricks and engage in secretive acts just to
fulfil their clients request. they deal with the spirit world and engage in acts
contrary to the Islamic teachings yet they portray themselves as pious men and
use their Islamic appearances as a means to get customers. this men are just
like any other professional, for them ''god's professionals''. some of them
line their rooms with Qurans that they hardly read, they are what most
scholars refer to as MAGICIANS. the quran explain the acts of this people.
our marabouts are not using Islamic means to do any thing but other methods
of connecting forces.
marabourism works. we have to acknowledge that. is there any proof that it
works? yes. evil forces is existing. even in Christianity ,they talk of evil
forces,demons. people have access to this forces. there are many books written
from both Islamic and Judaic and Christian sources explaining this things.
we cannot outright deny the existence of jinns and how they associate with
humans who revered them.
may God forgive us from our past dealings with this sinful people. my advice
is that ,we need to stop patronising this men. they are like the
clairvoyance of the west, the palm readers of Hinduism and holy men in animism and
spiritual masters among Muslims. they are all magicians. avoid dealing with. let
not their outward Islamic appearance deceive you.we have many family names
associated with this profession. not all marabouts are magicians but many are.
put your trust in Allah ,He will surface for you. May God be with us and be
our protector from whatever we fear. A man can only more man not above the
status of human.
what do you know them, the seriegns and Moro's? enlighten us if you dare.
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