Thank you again Mr.Touray for your clarification on the issue of faith. However sir, you did not answer my question but pondering on the same old story I have heard over and over again. What I am asking is the reason why God take us out of the Garden to earth? also as why should God let satan to exist if He/She did not Obey His will? God says that, everything on earth is an example of that we will have in heaven.
Taking that to consideration, When swomeone works for a company for certain period and at the end does not want to Obey the company's regulations disagreeing with the owners and the owners have no other choice than sending Him/her packing, should the company be mandated to paying him continuously for life or should it be for certain period? Again God says before you worship me, you should "try" to know me first.
Again, knowing someone or somebody those not come in a silver plate but asking a clarity about him and why he does certain thing that does not motivate you to follow what he/she is preaching concerning your interest. Some people will be critical if one will asked certain question regarding God, some will tell that God doesn't want you to asked many questions but to believe Him. Of course I believe in God as well as the prophets but the stories that preachers said are those that are confusing, as such, if God took us out of the Garden because we are sinful, why will He take us back while we are not clean?
Again, my stupid logic told me that, GOD GAVE US THE SENSES WE ARE USING TO THINK FEEL TOUCH SEE AND HEAR. These are things that we can use to know what is right and wrong, therefore, why do we need Satan to influence us WHILE THE BRAIN IS THERE TO ASSIST OUR SENSES? If something is term wrong it therefore satanic but anything good is Godly, in this way who will take responsibility if something goes wrong hence Satan is more powerful than we are. Therefore, everybody should go to heaven because we are powerless to resist things we cannot see feel or touch and hear.
That is why God said between me and you no one will go to hell, because He knows that we are our own Satan for that matter He said only between you and your fellow human-being will take you to hell.
Again thanks for your time.
/Brother Edie, you are a very humble person. We are all students in this global village. Be proud with what you know and express it so that others can learn from you. The topic has been expanded. We shall include every thing relevant here. Our learned brothers are a bit miserly, they don't easily part with knowledge. Haruna is one educated brother.
Coming to the real issue of our relationship as human beings with the Devil or Satan. i will put it in a story form but it is how the scholars of Islam explained it.
Long before man was created ,a being was among the angels. Angels don't disobey the commands of God. They are created that way. The duties assigned to is done to perfection and they engage in the glorification of God all their life's. Among the Angels was the Devil or Satan or Jinn. He was created from Fire. He served among the Angels ,at one point rose to be among the leadership.
What causes a high ranking being among the Angels to be banished to oblivion? God in his infinite plans, started creating our ancestor Adam. As Muslims we believe that God created Adam with his own hands. when Adam was laying in a form of clay or mud. the Angels will be wondering what being God is creating. The Satan started to be jealous of Adam has he lay in a lifeless form. It is reported that, The Satan usually point its finger at Adam's Tummy saying " i don't know what is this but if any thing his tummy will be a big temptation for him". to this many scholars said, the Satan's words proof true against us as humans, our quest for livelihood make us do many horrendous things. all we pursue in life is related to our happiness and comfort. from thief's to murderer.
When Adam was completed to the human form, God then created a soul. The soul is not from God. The soul is created. Then Adam's soul is breath into him. Then God authorised the Angels and Satan to prostrate to Adam. God created us with honour and respect. To this request the Angels fall down and prostrated. But the Satan refused.
He disobeyed the command of God. This is a serious issue but the Satan was ready to face any consequences. He was asked, why did you refuse to obey the command of God? his answer, which is similar to what many human beings say to day is " i am better than him, you created me from fire and him from clay".
God told the Satan ," i know things you don't know". but the Satan was adamant. It refuse to bodge. He sealed his faith. What is the difference between committing a sin and falling in a state of disbelief? to commit a sin one knowingly do an act that he is forbidden from doing. to commit disbelief or kuffur, one denies the the validity of there being any wrong in his or her action. he/she don't belief the commands are reasonable and valid. this is disbelief.
an example, God command Muslims not to commit fornication and adultery. we as humans have many temptations. one way or the other, you find yourself committing fornication. you accepts that it is wrong but you followed your desire and commit a major sin in Islam which has a stipulated punishment in here and the hereafter. but still you do it. That is a sin.
but if you don't belief that fornication is a sin and that why should it be a sin? it is a relationship between two consenting adult, it is unreasonable for God to regard it a sin, then you have disbelief and disregard God's commandments and his validity and existence.
What the devil did was the later. He told God, i am better than Adam ,meaning human. i am made of fire, still coming to the discrimination issue. the statement of the devil is thus, you God made a mistake. you were irrational and unjust to tell me to bow down to an inferior creation of yours. whom he thought don't deserve any honour from him.
God then asked him the Satan, what do you want? i reward you now all the past deeds you have done or later? he opted for a condition that He the Satan live till dooms day. that wish of him was granted. Before parting he made a promise to God. That is " i will make all the offspring of Adam, the man who is responsible for my banishment to disobey you" .God replied ,you can only make those who listen to you disobey me.
this is the condition we are in Edie. God never abandon us as humans. he through out our existence have send men among us with his message, his guidance and word.
what is important for us as people to realise is that, God has given us a brain. that set us apart from all other creatures. we can differentiate what is good and what is not depending on our state of mind. we can take time to read the books containing the words of God, we can take time and asked those who spend their time learning about God and the way to him. this is all our choice. but let no one mistake the words of God's punishment for disobeying him. there is a hell fire and there is paradise. there is a day of judgement. yes we may not be able to do acts that will guarantee us paradise but obeying God's commandment is an indication that we held him high and respect his words. i will continue later brother Edie. thanks a lot.
Edie Sidibeh wrote:
Thanks again Suntu,
I am not doing this to offend anyone but to clear my doubt on certain issue regarding religion in general. I am really in a confusion stage and I need a refurbishment from anyone as knowledgeable to set me free as a result, God will reword you for opening the eyes of a blinded stupid person like me.
If however, the story of Adam and Eve is to go by like it was narrated by both Islam Christianity, God took us out of the heaven due to our sins so as to get our acts together before He took us back, then do you think He will accept us while we are still dirty? I think anyone who died, has completed his mandates, that is to say, he/she is clean from the sin to take his or her place in heaven. We who are still alive, need to complete our mandates like those who went before us. Therefore, if a person is dead, we should thank God for him because he/she have pass the exam to live in eternal life forever.
God says as well, the wisest among you will gain from my unlimited gifts on earth as well as heaven. Now who are the wisest, on earth? people who manufactured planes cars technological equipment etc which are benefiting to millions of people, upon that, they manufactured politics using it as a weapon to strengthen their positions. However, I am not saying that the white people are as well the ones to go to heaven, because I think going to heaven needs the recognition of your higher self, your Creator. Recognising that what ever you manufactured was created by Him hence without him bringing you to this earth, those products will never be manufactured.
Africa for example, is the richest continent in the globe yet the poorest continent, Why? simply because white people came to us, fool us, and teach us their political languages to be use as official language, and teaches us the politics that we know nothing about and the few that were wise among us were assassinated through the help of the white man by their own people so that they can continued dealing with fools.
However, in recently era, there came lots who are wiser in the system and eager for changes but failed in using the politic wisely to gain but wanted to challenge head-on to get what they rightfully own and in doing that, they end up hurting their own people. What I am trying to say is the fact that whoever God blessed no one can take that but to work with them wisely by using their own tools of politic they teaches use to whip them hence for now, we cannot manufacture our own politic which will be contrary to theirs. All this religious countries are using western democracy one way or the other because of its power and influences it carries.
The Kingdom of Saudi have never ever stage an election but due to the pressure from the west, they recently stage one as well as giving rights to women to vote and hold higher positions in strategic areas. Do they have the need to do that with vast amount of wealth in their disposal? yes they do because they wanted to use the politic to pave their ways through the skin of the west. Therefore, African leaders should open up their eyes and stop challenging but work with these God given people by studying and using their politic against them wisely to take our rightfull position in the club. This is my own logic on what need to be done as well as the truth I think is how things are in reality.
Edi
SUNTOU TOURAY wrote:
Thanks Edie. you raise interesting issues as well. you are brave to state your notion on religion and faith. since i am a bit short of time ,i will respond later in detail. i know a lot about the marabout business. they are unlike the field of studies you alluded to but still a wonderful take. from what you wrote, i can see our difference in the understanding of agida. the Islamic creed. the quran explicitly stated the existence of parallel beings,the jinns. we as Muslims must accept that teaching. i hope more learned brothers here like mo baldeh and others can elaborate on that but whatever the case i will comment later.
Edie Sidibeh wrote: Good piece of writing my dear Suntu and may God bless you for refurbishing people's mind on this sensitive issue.
Then again Suntu I have a doubt as such, who gave that magical power? did they create those powers for themselves? God gave power to people to make guns yet guns kills, He gave power to people to make cars planes boats yet those creations are not completely save for human consumption. He gave us mouth, hands, brains, legs and all the organs to use them in-order to make our lives easier.
He also said we should use these above powers if it will make our lives easier in "good manner" by using our brains he created and eye. He also said that those whom he have guided will never be misled right. Therefore, I think, those who goes to the serigns or marabout is also His creation to have the guts to go there and give the money they are giving to get blessing in return if that also will make their lives easier. God is more powerful than the serigns, therefore, whoever God have guided, will never be influence by tricking of the marbouts with their magics. If God did not agree with you going to Marbouts you will not be able to do it because He is the ruler of your life and have created you and whatever you do. Preachers also can be of the same category because lots of them are rich from the donation given by their followers, Presidents, directors, ministers, name just few are all using the power given to them by God and is only few of them who are using their
brains and eyes for that matter.
Why is Satan created? is it just to say all bad influences are created by him and Good ones by God? Logically, Satan is a fake or a cooked product to play with people's mind by saying oh whatever good is God but whatever bad is created by Satan. Satan never exist we are our own Satan hence we have the brain and eyes to think and to see and realised what is Godly and not. Traditionally, we are praying because we were born seeing our fore fathers doing it and that is great because faith can move mountain and can make one happy especially the poor who without faith will have shorter life.
Why will God create you after knowing already that you are going to the hell fire? what is the use of Him creating you? God loves us very much and will not take anyone to hell fire, because if you do bad, you will see it before you die and if you do good is only good that will follow you. Is only we humans who are always hesitant by looking at what others have and you don't, that is why He said as well do not look at people who are over you but those who are bellow you and always pray for them to be at the stage you are, in this way, God will guide you and bless your progress. He said as well no one will get to the hell fire because of Him but between you and your fellow human-being will, hence He cannot forgive what you did to your fellow human-being. I think whatever one did bad, will see it before dead overtake you, either in your life time or the period of you dead when the angel will take your breath away but you must pay for all what you did because God need you
clean not while you are dirty.
Edi
SUNTOU TOURAY wrote:
The mystical fellows in our communities has been with us since when we cannot remember. Many among us have dealt with them, we have one way or the other consulted them. but do you really know what sort of things this men are doing? what is that we know about the serigns or marabout or moro's? this infamous topic i will call who dares talk. why did i gave it that strange title? it have to do with the strong believe that people has in the powers of this men.
from a perspective of Islam, this people can be categorise into two groups. those who engage in acts of prayers and good actions and maintain the spiritual standard required of a learned Muslim. they conduct their acts in accordance with authentic sunnah or ways of the prophets. they never claim any powers or means extra-ordinary, when people ask them for prayers or duaas, they never hesitate to explain their human limitations. all they do is ask God's favour for that particular person. this group of marabouts are very few. to attain high status and closeness to God has many requirements. among them is consuming what is lawful and that which is acquire without deception and/or falsehood. in short eating from halal earnings. this is a monumental task for all believers.
the second categories of marabouts/seriegns is the mystical masters. they always have an air of piety with them. they direct people to them self. they demand money always. they use tricks and engage in secretive acts just to fulfil their clients request. they deal with the spirit world and engage in acts contrary to the Islamic teachings yet they portray themselves as pious men and use their Islamic appearances as a means to get customers. this men are just like any other professional, for them ''god's professionals''. some of them line their rooms with Qurans that they hardly read, they are what most scholars refer to as MAGICIANS. the quran explain the acts of this people.
our marabouts are not using Islamic means to do any thing but other methods of connecting forces.
marabourism works. we have to acknowledge that. is there any proof that it works? yes. evil forces is existing. even in Christianity ,they talk of evil forces,demons. people have access to this forces. there are many books written from both Islamic and Judaic and Christian sources explaining this things. we cannot outright deny the existence of jinns and how they associate with humans who revered them.
may God forgive us from our past dealings with this sinful people. my advice is that ,we need to stop patronising this men. they are like the clairvoyance of the west, the palm readers of Hinduism and holy men in animism and spiritual masters among Muslims. they are all magicians. avoid dealing with. let not their outward Islamic appearance deceive you.we have many family names associated with this profession. not all marabouts are magicians but many are. put your trust in Allah ,He will surface for you. May God be with us and be our protector from whatever we fear. A man can only more man not above the status of human.
what do you know them, the seriegns and Moro's? enlighten us if you dare.
いいいいいいいいいいいいいいいいいいいいいいいいいいいいい
To unsubscribe/subscribe or view archives of postings, go to the Gambia-L Web interface
at: http://listserv.icors.org/archives/gambia-l.html
To Search in the Gambia-L archives, go to: http://listserv.icors.org/SCRIPTS/WA-ICORS.EXE?S1=gambia-l
To contact the List Management, please send an e-mail to:
[log in to unmask]
いいいいいいいいいいいいいいいいいいいいいいいいいいいいい
---------------------------------
Sent from Yahoo! Mail.
A Smarter Email.
いいいいいいいいいいいいいいいいいいいいいいいいいいいいい
To unsubscribe/subscribe or view archives of postings, go to the Gambia-L Web interface
at: http://listserv.icors.org/archives/gambia-l.html
To Search in the Gambia-L archives, go to: http://listserv.icors.org/SCRIPTS/WA-ICORS.EXE?S1=gambia-l
To contact the List Management, please send an e-mail to:
[log in to unmask]
いいいいいいいいいいいいいいいいいいいいいいいいいいいいい
いいいいいいいいいいいいいいいいいいいいいいいいいいいいい
To unsubscribe/subscribe or view archives of postings, go to the Gambia-L Web interface
at: http://listserv.icors.org/archives/gambia-l.html
To Search in the Gambia-L archives, go to: http://listserv.icors.org/SCRIPTS/WA-ICORS.EXE?S1=gambia-l
To contact the List Management, please send an e-mail to:
[log in to unmask]
いいいいいいいいいいいいいいいいいいいいいいいいいいいいい
---------------------------------
Sent from Yahoo! Mail.
A Smarter Email.
いいいいいいいいいいいいいいいいいいいいいいいいいいいいい
To unsubscribe/subscribe or view archives of postings, go to the Gambia-L Web interface
at: http://listserv.icors.org/archives/gambia-l.html
To Search in the Gambia-L archives, go to: http://listserv.icors.org/SCRIPTS/WA-ICORS.EXE?S1=gambia-l
To contact the List Management, please send an e-mail to:
[log in to unmask]
いいいいいいいいいいいいいいいいいいいいいいいいいいいいい
いいいいいいいいいいいいいいいいいいいいいいいいいいいいい
To unsubscribe/subscribe or view archives of postings, go to the Gambia-L Web interface
at: http://listserv.icors.org/archives/gambia-l.html
To Search in the Gambia-L archives, go to: http://listserv.icors.org/SCRIPTS/WA-ICORS.EXE?S1=gambia-l
To contact the List Management, please send an e-mail to:
[log in to unmask]
いいいいいいいいいいいいいいいいいいいいいいいいいいいいい
---------------------------------
Sent from Yahoo! Mail.
A Smarter Email.
いいいいいいいいいいいいいいいいいいいいいいいいいいいいい
To unsubscribe/subscribe or view archives of postings, go to the Gambia-L Web interface
at: http://listserv.icors.org/archives/gambia-l.html
To Search in the Gambia-L archives, go to: http://listserv.icors.org/SCRIPTS/WA-ICORS.EXE?S1=gambia-l
To contact the List Management, please send an e-mail to:
[log in to unmask]
いいいいいいいいいいいいいいいいいいいいいいいいいいいいい
|
