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Subject:
From:
saul khan <[log in to unmask]>
Reply To:
The Gambia and related-issues mailing list <[log in to unmask]>
Date:
Wed, 1 Dec 1999 00:34:59 GMT
Content-Type:
text/plain
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Yaya,

I give up! Good luck.

Saul


>From: yeks drame <[log in to unmask]>
>Reply-To: The Gambia and related-issues mailing list
><[log in to unmask]>
>To: [log in to unmask]
>Subject: Re: Reply to Saul on Alpha's Proposals for Gambia-L
>Date: Tue, 30 Nov 1999 00:57:07 PST
>
>Saul,
>
>If you realy mean what you are saying, why beating the bush then? You
>rigthly confirmed that your friends where within all these so called
>"Tribal" groupings.
>
>Certainly, am not trying to impress anyone! and am telling you that, am not
>defending Robinson as a person! am talking about his proposal. You see,
>maybe you dont know the brother, and I guess that is the reason for all
>this
>noise, but I find it strange you talking about me like the way you did, you
>possibly know me? and if you do you may know aswell that I am not the type
>who tries to impress people! about what??
>
>Well, lets not get imotional. I guess this is nothing personal but a
>gathering of ideas and thoughts. I am not here to tell you who is Alpha and
>my knowledge about him. I will not be doing favour to the panell for doing
>so! however, the impression I got in his piece will be substantial to
>elaborate on.
>
>The brother was concern with the unfortunate ample supply of problems in
>the
>Gambia, and atleast came out with some humble ideas about how to solve
>them.
>We are certain that the problems will not disapear magically by themselves,
>they most be solved, or atleast managed! what proposals do you have for
>that? One thing I know is that, in order  to solve these problems we will
>not put faith in ethnicsm, nor to someone with his/her panaceas, this we
>shall consider to be naive and irresponsible. Large scale( meaning
>collectively) ,concerted efforts by determined people should be the work
>force of this agenda.You believe it or not, your idea and believe cannot
>suscribe to such!
>
>Therefore, Saul! If you are willing or about teach us about our origins,
>and
>what we should know, I would  be with the opinion that you first develop a
>process of awareness of the nature and gravity of the challenges in the
>Gambia, the complex situation and if there is any solution to it! that is
>what I expect to hear from you not about me personaly or Robinson! that is
>nonesense!
>
>I think any genuine person, will understand that the process of development
>should avoid the festering of such backward ideas of yours,"Tribal" issues!
>The proposals Alpha raised came at a time when the expectation became
>demand
>on the economic and political machinery that are inevitably unmet, giving
>rise to frustration and outrage.What examples did you learned from this?
>experienced! otherwise from other nations who had been in the same
>situation? What do policy makers do in such situations? To some extend we
>can take refuge to history! I thought we should have therefore, enhance
>peaceful and well defined manners with the mind of nation building. That
>was
>the essence of that wounderful piece of Alpha! The problem is there, and we
>shall not try to avoid grappling with those problems we already admit!We
>should not either, exihibit a childlike faith that a divine intervention
>will solve them. What am saying is that, we could have by now been
>discussing other productive questions than this. Well, that seems not to be
>the case here, as we are permitted to engage in happier pursuits for the
>sake of writing!
>
>Anyway, Saul I am certain that there is a common goal, and without doubt we
>are all suscribing to a better Gambia, and the appropriation of the forces
>to build that is nothing more than the development of ideas corresponding
>to
>individual way of annalysing. In order to achieve state objectives, I am
>well aware that we can deffer in policies and believe me there is nothing
>personal with that, you are entittle to your opinion.But we shall most
>candidly and deffinately not tollarate the idea of "Tribalism". We are
>concern  with  the development of the Gambia, which I believe should
>strongly be policies based on collectivism including all at large! In this
>regard,I believe that it is our duty to be betttressed by our obligations,
>to drive us to try the most prudent action possible, and that is what this
>panel I supossed is asking about! What do you have in the closset to offer?
>
>Saul, please dont be emotional, its the GL that put us together which I
>thought is a great thing. That we can even discuss something of this
>nature,
>that is great! Just be reasonable and dont attack on the person, evaluate
>on
>the topic. I dont know you so I guess I cant say anything about you and
>even
>if I do, it would not be on the GL. It is not a personal corresponding
>pannel!
>
>Peace brother Saul.
>Yahya
>
>
>
>
>
>>From: saul khan <[log in to unmask]>
>>Reply-To: The Gambia and related-issues mailing list
>><[log in to unmask]>
>>To: [log in to unmask]
>>Subject: Re: Reply to Yaya Drammeh on Alpha's Proposals for Gambia-L
>>Date: Mon, 29 Nov 1999 20:03:30 GMT
>>
>>Yaya,
>>
>>I don't know what's getting into you, but you're holding unto the wrong
>>vine! We (yourself and I) grew up in one of the most culturally eclectic
>>communities in the Gambia: SereKunda/Tallinding/LatriKunda. Mandingo,
>>Jola,
>>Wollof, Serere, Manjago, Karoninka ... name it, it was there. If others
>>don't know this, Yaya, you do. We have mutual friends from virtually every
>>"tribe" in the Gambia. Remember my close friends: Dam Jeng, Sidia Badji,
>>Sheriff Newlands, Pa Leese Mendy, and the Jallow-Jallows? So I find it
>>funny
>>that you're trying to paint me as a narrow-minded tribalist. Who are you
>>trying to impress? What are you trying to prove?
>>
>>What is even more ironical is that, you're defending Alpha Robinson, your
>>knowledge of whom does not extend anywhere beyond his public persona. What
>>do you know about Alpha other than the fact that he was supposed to be the
>>firebrand Head Boy of GHS who caused a raucous at that school in the
>>mid-80s? Or the equally controversial fracas he was involved in in China
>>in
>>'89. In some books, that qualifies Alpha as a progressive. Maybe he is.  I
>>don't know anything about him beyond that. I have no ill will against the
>>guy. I, in fact subscribe to many of his proposals, and I've said this in
>>my
>>original piece. But I do have a problem with the ethnic issue he raised.
>>I've challenged him to tell me who these "ethnic" campaigners are, and if
>>I'm wrong, I'll apologize. Alpha denied he is referring to Darbo and UDP,
>>but Basiru Ndow who first jumped to his defense, is honest enough to admit
>>that Darbo is in fact the politician Alpha is referring to just -as I knew
>>he was. Who's lying here?  Anyone with a modicum of intelligence can see
>>who
>>the target of his "ethnic" campaigning is.  Like I told Alpha originally,
>>there's this ethnic nonsense going on, on all sides. Why insinuate that
>>it's
>>one-sided? I've said, let's expose anyone individual guilty of this
>>divisiveness, and condemn him/her. What's tribalist about that?
>>
>>A tribe-less society in Gambia is an ideal that we have to work towards.
>>We
>>are not there yet. And not to be the devil's advocate, but I don't see us
>>getting there in our lifetime. We're doing better than our parents, and I
>>hope our children will fare better. But you cannot solve your problem by
>>pushing it under the rug. We have a tribal problem in the Gambia. And it's
>>not only the politicians that are guilty. It's any of us who perpetuate
>>stereotypes of one ethnic group or another, or laughs at jokes that
>>ridicule
>>one group or another, or denies someone scholarship b/c of their
>>ethnicity.
>>These are still the reality in the Gambia. I did not create this.  To
>>pretend that it's not there would not solve it. We all need to come to
>>terms
>>w/ this, put everything on the table, discuss it, see where everyone is
>>coming from, and heal our nation. Just like this society (US) is trying to
>>do. Otherwise, we can play dumb/naïve all we want, when the dust settles,
>>the problem will still be here. On both this forum and Gambianews.com,
>>there
>>are occasional stories of how serious tribalism now is in the Gambia. And
>>from what I gather, it's not coming from the angle Alpha seems to suggest.
>>
>>The fact that I dare discuss this so-called sensitive (some may say
>>explosive) issue should tell you s'thing about me. I just don't have
>>anything to hide or prove! Let's all summon our courage and face this
>>tribal
>>issue. It won't go away by all of us sticking our heads up in the clouds
>>like you're doing Yaya. And, Yaya, you're not sophisticated only b/c you
>>don't know what "tribalism" is. Just visit the Gambia now, and no one will
>>need to remind you. Look at the changes going on in the army, the police,
>>and the overall civil service. If you can't see the obvious, god help you.
>>In any case, it's not fair for me to put more on your plate than you can
>>chew. If you can't comprehend, what I've been saying about this issue,
>>good
>>luck. But, just to set the record straight, I did not start this "ethnic"
>>talk. Alpha did. If he were honest enough to mention the people he's
>>referring to originally, we would have put this to rest a long time ago.
>>
>>Peace.
>>
>>Saul
>>
>>PS
>>If for some weird reason, this is your way of proving loyalty to Alpha,
>>you
>>can call me a Backward Tribalist. I don't mind. I've never been bothered
>>by
>>lies. You know that Yaya!
>>
>>Saul
>>
>>
>>>From: yeks drame <[log in to unmask]>
>>>Reply-To: The Gambia and related-issues mailing list
>>><[log in to unmask]>
>>>To: [log in to unmask]
>>>Subject: Re: Reply to Yaya Drammeh on Alpha's Proposals for Gambia-L
>>>Date: Mon, 29 Nov 1999 08:05:07 PST
>>>
>>>Saul,
>>>I mean, why are you taking such a stance. Its unproductive! very
>>>backward,
>>>and can even be considered irresponsible! for that matter.
>>>Off course, I did read your piece, and it doesn't sound positive.
>>>
>>>I think you need to use your mind better! No body is going to be out here
>>>to
>>>entertain such ideas! Robinson's piece was very educative and smart. A
>>>better Gambia, is the agenda  Saul, in case you  missed the point!
>>>Do you consider the out come of such ideas as "Tribalism"? what effects
>>>do
>>>they have? Why are you puting energy on"Tribal" diversity?
>>>
>>>I have been reading some of your wounderful pieces, and thought you were
>>>more smart than this. Take a little research on that word "Tribe" and see
>>>if
>>>it even fit our society! It has more wider meanings and effects than you
>>>may
>>>think. We shall not entertain that Saul! be careful! its realy backwarded
>>>and unproductive.
>>>
>>>I think, if you dont have anything to add, or argue constructively,please
>>>give chance to others who can come up better ideas concerning the
>>>progress
>>>and prosperity of our people. We are not out here just for a matter of
>>>challeging others.We are here to discuss ideas.Further more I will
>>>consider
>>>this a waste of time and energy for you, because the average Gambian is
>>>very
>>>well aware of the effects of this so called "tribal" issue." so please
>>>"lagg
>>>av nu"
>>>
>>>No hard feelings brother, "tribal" issues doesn't suit us! we are one.
>>>
>>>Yahya
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>>From: saul khan <[log in to unmask]>
>>>>Reply-To: The Gambia and related-issues mailing list
>>>><[log in to unmask]>
>>>>To: [log in to unmask]
>>>>Subject: Reply to Yaya Drammeh on Alpha's Proposals for Gambia-L
>>>>Date: Mon, 29 Nov 1999 13:14:31 GMT
>>>>
>>>>Yaya, Yaya, Yaya...
>>>>
>>>>Some things just don't change. Do they? Read my piece and read Alpha's
>>>>again, and ask yourself who the real tribalist is. Like they say around
>>>>here, "the mind is a terrible thing to waste." Use your mind Yaya!
>>>>
>>>>Saul.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>From: yeks drame <[log in to unmask]>
>>>>>Reply-To: The Gambia and related-issues mailing list
>>>>><[log in to unmask]>
>>>>>To: [log in to unmask]
>>>>>Subject: Re: Reply to Basiru Ndow:Alpha's Proposals for Gambia-L]
>>>>>Date: Mon, 29 Nov 1999 03:42:32 PST
>>>>>
>>>>>What are U up to Saul?
>>>>>I am disapointed with those ideas of "tribal defendance"
>>>>>Alpha's proposals were not "tribal" nor were they so bad as you may
>>>>>have
>>>>>thought.If he sound wrong in his proposals, may be you have a better
>>>>>idea.
>>>>>We will certainly love to hear that one too!
>>>>>
>>>>>Any way, I am certain that Robinson, is a reasonable and responsible
>>>>>person
>>>>>who can clarify his agenda better than I may do.However, we sould not
>>>>>be
>>>>>out
>>>>>here to entertain such backward ideas as "tribalism"
>>>>>Infact I even hate thet word! Am sorry brother but, I thought,we should
>>>>>have
>>>>>by now been thinking far ahead of that. What is "tribalism"?????
>>>>>
>>>>>Yahya
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>>From: saul khan <[log in to unmask]>
>>>>>>Reply-To: The Gambia and related-issues mailing list
>>>>>><[log in to unmask]>
>>>>>>To: [log in to unmask]
>>>>>>Subject: Reply to Basiru Ndow:Alpha's Proposals for Gambia-L]
>>>>>>Date: Mon, 29 Nov 1999 05:00:13 GMT
>>>>>>
>>>>>>Basiru,
>>>>>>
>>>>>>You need to go back and read my article again. I'm not a fan of
>>>>>>Ousainou's.
>>>>>>However, whether he's another Jawara is beside the point. The gist of
>>>>>>my
>>>>>>article is that we should go after individuals who, for one reason or
>>>>>>another are keeping our nation down, not any particular group or
>>>>>>tribe.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>If you have evidence that Ousainou was campaigning on tribalism,
>>>>>>produce
>>>>>>it,
>>>>>>and I'll be the first to condemn him. Regarding the D30K, I'm not
>>>>>>familiar
>>>>>>with the case. But YOU can use this forum to raise that issue.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>Regarding my contention w/ Alpha, if all you have is what you've said
>>>>>>here,
>>>>>>that's very sad. We can do better than  taking cheap shots at each
>>>>>>other.
>>>>>>If
>>>>>>you want to engage in an intelligent argument by producing evidence to
>>>>>>back
>>>>>>your assertions, I'm game. But if your only mission is to engage in
>>>>>>sleaze,
>>>>>>you'll have to look elsewhere. So Mr. Ndow, you either put up, or just
>>>>>>shut
>>>>>>up! I won't dignify your sleaze.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>Saul.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>From: Basiru Ndow <[log in to unmask]>
>>>>>>>Reply-To: [log in to unmask]
>>>>>>>To: [log in to unmask]
>>>>>>>Subject: [Fwd: Reply to Alpha's Some proposals for Gambia-L]
>>>>>>>Date: Sun, 28 Nov 1999 19:20:06 -0600
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>Saul,
>>>>>>>   Your article is absolute nonsense.!!!!!you need to broaden up your
>>>>>>>mind
>>>>>>>and stop
>>>>>>>pretending, whether you like it or not, this is the tactic that
>>>>>>>Ousainou
>>>>>>>used as a last resort to win the last elections..After all Ousainou
>>>>>>>is
>>>>>>>just
>>>>>>>a
>>>>>>>REPLICA of the ousted PPP regime, he was recently indicted by the
>>>>>>>commission after collecting D30,969.00 from public coffers to recover
>>>>>>>$74,000. from the defunct NTC, he never did his Job and never return
>>>>>>>our money back....Wow!!!! Is he not going to be another Jawara or
>>>>>>>Jammeh
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>Thanxxxxxxxx
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>Basiru Ndow
>>>>>>>
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