Mr. Jeng,
You wrote:
"...Norway is a good country to live in, alright. Financial support of our mosques, though, is not unique for our religion, as this is a policy benefitting all religious denominations..."
That's the beauty of it.... "a policy benefitting all religious denominations."
I wonder what would happen to Christians who move to Saudi Arabia, for example and try to establish a church anywhere in that country?
Norway, a Christian country, has the tolerance to not only accept the freedom of worship of any religion/sect, but also the generousity to sponsor them in accordance with their numbers. I think this is something that 'Muslim countries' can learn from; tolerance and space for each to express and practise their believes.
Your wrote further:
"...But even though this is true, anti-islamic sentiments (not anti-budhism, or anti-judaism, or even anti-freethinkers) are becoming increasingly widespread in Norwegian society... "
Mr. Jeng, as far as this statement is true today, why was it not true just a few years ago? I think the answer to this simple question is obvious to anyone who has been paying even the least attention to world events in the recent past.
As I said a couple of days or so ago, Islam is what Muslims make it and the face of Islam that has been presented in recent years could not have failed to elicit a reaction from the ordinary people. True the media has played a major role in sensationalising news about Muslims and Islam but most of what has been written in the papers and aired on tv cannot altogether be refuted.
It is a fact that so called Islamist have been both advocating and threatening violence against the West; Norway in particular has been singled out in three Al Qaida communiques during the past year or so. Is there any wonder that when Norwegian society demonstrates such hospitality and generousity as we have both agreed, become suspecious of Islam when that hospitality and generousity is abused?
When Islamist are lucky to escape alive from their countries of origin where repression against them is rife, it is in countries like Norway that they seek refuge.After they arrive and are safely sheltered and protected they begin to talk about things like Jihad and spreading Islam, knowing full well that the liberal laws of their host countries protect their rights to freedom of speech and worship which they did not enjoy at home..
As I mentioned above, the face of Islam that has been unveiled in the West in the recent past is not so attractive in the least, especially to an uninformed onlooker who encounters daily in the streets of Oslo, Bergen, Trondheim, etc., women covered from head to toe whiles images of oppressed Afghan women are still fresh in their minds. This is a natural reaction to the violence and threats of violence.
For now I would prefer not to name any names due to the political climate here especially after the recent London bombings but I am sure you are quite aware of some of the nonesense that was being preached in one of our mosques just a couple of years or so back? I have not been there recently so I can't confirm if the tone is still the same today but some of what this so-called Imam preached was so illogical that it beggars belief and he was cultivating a following as you would hear some ignorant folks repeat his nonsense in private.
Some of what I have personally heard him say ranged from: "We are here to spread Islam and they are afraid of the message and since they hear the call to prayers everyday and fail to come and join, they are all going to burn in hell" to "It is haram to marry or have children with Norwegian women". (f you need confirmation on the above ascertion, I can give you the name of the so-called Imam who preached such nonesense and the names of at least two witnesses whom I know you happen to know personally).
Now, how many of us really had the spread of Islam among their agenda when we came to Norway? Is not the reason why we are all here because the grass just happens to be greener here and that we enjoy our freedoms which we all know are guaranteed here?
And apart from this so-called Imam who had his residence permit granted to him for the sole purpopse of becoming an Imam in a congregation, how many other Gambians are there that obtained residence permit here without having been married to a Norwegian woman, have a student status or political asylum? I wonder!
This is the type of nonsesense that I was reffering to. Have Norwegiansd anything to fear about the arrival of Islam in this country based solely on moral issues? Are all those women who dance "jai becho" in Central Oslo annually and as recently as last week not Muslims? Have they not been doing the same thing for some twenty odd years now? Did Norwegians not always join and make merry with their Gambian friends?
So the reason for Norwegian Islamophobia is not the ordinary Gambian/African Muslim but Arab fundamentalism together with the ignorance of a few African Imams schooled in Arab lands, who cannot even isolate and articulate the issues that concern their African Muslim congregations but instead dabble in fundamentalist nonesense. In the Gambia I grew up in, whenever we celebrated E'id, etc, the Imams always urged for prayers "for fellow Muslim, Christians, the whole country and humanity at large" if not in that order, at least a semblance of it. That is the Islam I know and that is the Islam I am going to continue to adhere to and will refuse to have my faith corrupted by Arab fundamentalism.
When African Muslims are dying in Niger because of fermine, it is not Kwait or U.A.E we see rushing to their rescue. Even though the West have a moral obligation to offer relief because of their colonial past, rich Arab states also have moral/religious obligation.
I, for one don't see any reason to always run to the defence of folks who don't give a hoot whether I live or die even though we worship the same God and they refer to me as Brother-in -Islam when it suits them.
I just refuse to have other people think for me!
So, Frp and Carl I. Hagen just happen to be reactionary and political opportunists who cash in on the Norwegian phobia. Besides, you know as well as I do that they always do better at opinion poll than at the actual polls as has been the trend.
Now, if I have issues with Norwegian society, it is certainly the latent recism that simmners below the surface, not only here but in all Western societies and whenever the opportunity avails itself, whether among Norwegians or with foreigners, I always make sure to make my mind known but never try to bring religion into the argument. When I feel that I am discriminated because of my race, that's why I'll base my fight on, not run and hide behind religion, mumbling that "they are going to hell !", cowardly, if you ask me... With such folks I always ask them to convince me Nelson Mandela is going to hell just because he never prayed as a muslim. I have never seen a better Muslim than Mandela in my whole life!
However, when the issue of religion/Islam happens to be the topic of discussion I never try to apologise for Arab violence because it has never made sense to me for, who kills most Iraqis in Iraq today? And these are civilians I am talking about now.
I could sympathise with their cause had they adhered strictly to the rules of war and attacked U.S. and British troops or agents and symbols that represent U.S./British repression in Iraq and elswhere like the IRA did and like the ANC did under apartheid or like other revolutionary movements elsewhere. But to detonate a bomb in the midst of primary school childrend, killing almost a hundred of them, etc. just in order to render the country ungovernable is a tactic I can't associate myself with.
In the late eighties and early nineties, the ANC did manage to render South Africa ungovernable without targeting the civilian population on whose behalf they were fighting; if they learned of snitches, they singles them out and necklaced them and even though there were many priests in the anti-Apartheid movement, they maintained the political nature of their struggle as opposed to a religious one.
Though this response may be too long especially considering the short lenght of your message, I needed to cast the polemical net a bit wider so as to put things in their proper perespective.
Regards,
Kabir.
"Dr. Alhaji S. Jeng" <[log in to unmask]> wrote:
Brother Habib,
Norway is a good country to live in, alright. Financial support of our mosques, though, is not unique for our religion, as this is a policy benefitting all religious denominations. But even though this is true, anti-islamic sentiments (not anti-budhism, or anti-judaism, or even anti-freethinkers) are becoming increasingly widespread in Norwegian society. The Norwegians, in addition are trying to honor their commitments to the UN for accepting asylum seekers. However, the assistance given to these to get established in Norwegian society, is often used against third-world foreigners, not only asylum seekers, by extreme right wingers. Some 20 - 25 years ago, right wing ideas were detested by most Norwegians. Today more and more Norwegians are welcoming the arguments advanced by right wing parties such as the Fremskrittspartiet, as Mr. Njie can confirm. "A true model in humanity", I don't honestly know about that.
This is just trying to say that "all that glitters is not gold".
Dr. A. S. Jeng
----- Original Message -----
From: Habib Ghanim
To: [log in to unmask]
Sent: Friday, August 05, 2005 1:20 AM
Subject: Re: More football-pictures from Oslo
Kabir
Man if you are serious I will take you up on that. We can use Norways good social programs examples to show our ignorant racist and uneducated muslims brothers what a true muslim should be like . helping the less fortunate, educating the children for free , assisting working parents and even paying unemployed mothers who go to school. I heard they even help foreigners who seek asylum legetimately. That is what i call making use of the oil money God gave them.not our saudi brother who only enrich themselves even when they supposedly give aid ( by asking for a cut under the table)
honestly, Norway is really a fantastic nation whose government cares for its people like they do
a true model in humanity
Habib
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
From: Amadu Kabir Njie
Reply-To: The Gambia and related-issues mailing list
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Re: More football-pictures from Oslo
Date: Fri, 5 Aug 2005 00:04:21 +0100
>Habib!
>
>Why don't you emigrate? Yes, Norway is great in many respects. The state even subsidizes our mosques in proportion to the membership. The bigger your mosque the more kronas you get from the state. I've have been wondering seriously recently if I should not set up one; I know in my heart and God is my witness, that I'd make an all time Imam, just need to revise a bit first... :-)
>
>Regards,
>
>Kabir.
>
>Habib Ghanim wrote:
>
>great news , I heard that the girls team won also
>
>Norway is a great country that deserve parise in helping their poorer world citizens. i understand the government paid for the whole Gambian team
>
>habib
>
>
>
>
>
> >From: [log in to unmask]
> >Reply-To: The Gambia and related-issues mailing list
> >To: [log in to unmask]
> >Subject: More football-pictures from Oslo
> >Date: Thu, 4 Aug 2005 02:49:56 +0200
> >
> >The Gambian boys won 5-1 over the norwegian team Skeid Tuesday evening - in cold
> >and rainy Oslo-weather. Congratulations!
> >
> >You will find joy and football-happiness in the following pictures:
> >
> >http://www.flickr.com/photos/golf/sets/693462/show/
> >
> >Or here:
> >
> >http://www.flickr.com/photos/golf/sets/693462/
> >
> >Enjoy!
> >
> >[log in to unmask]
> >
> >いいいいいいいいいいいいいいいいいいいいいいいいいいいいい
> >To unsubscribe/subscribe or view archives of postings, go to the Gambia-L Web interface
> >at: http://maelstrom.stjohns.edu/archives/gambia-l.html
> >
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> >いいいいいいいいいいいいいいいいいいいいいいいいいいいいい
>
>
>いいいいいいいいいいいいいいいいいいいいいいいいいいいいい To unsubscribe/subscribe or view archives of postings, go to the Gambia-L Web interface at: http://maelstrom.stjohns.edu/archives/gambia-l.html To Search in the Gambia-L archives, go to: http://maelstrom.stjohns.edu/CGI/wa.exe?S1=gambia-l To contact the List Management, please send an e-mail to: [log in to unmask] いいいいいいいいいいいいいいいいいいいいいいいいいいいいい
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