Ginny, 
I am certainly not answering for Fuambai, but just wanted to point out that since the book came out in 2000 the health research has kept coming (although it is still very inconclusive), for example a huge WHO-sponsored 6-country study that was "launched" earlier this year.

In the book we also make the argument that it is increasingly unsustainable to expect this to be an issue that is entriely left to Africans to "argue out for themselves." As people from circumcising countries migrate to "the West" and some ask for asylum, give birth in hospitals etc., it has come to touch a wider range of stakeholders.

I don't think anyone would ever discourage you or anyone else from truly trying to educate herself. It is when "we" (always assumed to be Westerners) take it upon ourselves to educate OTHERS that things become problematic.

Finally, there have been so many "flare-ups" of this debate on Gambia-l through the years, and it has sometimes gotten so nasty, that I personally hesitate to go another round....

Best always, Ylva


On Sun, 3 Dec 2006, Ginny Quick wrote:

> Greetings, Ylva, I am hoping that Fuambai Ahmadu's posting problem will get resolved so she can be
> able to post again.  And as she is on this list (I think), I will respond to her directly.
>
>
>     Firstly, I'm in the process of reading the book "Female Circumcision in Africa:  Culture,
> Controversy,
> and Change".  I am actually only in the first few pages of the book, however, I'd first start by
> saying that I, for one, definitely have a lot to learn.
>
>
>     I think that people who oppose "FGC", as it were, are well-meaning, and when you are told,
> time and time again, of the so-called "consequences" of the practice, I think anyone hearing such
> things would be concerned.
>
>
>     As I thought I'd said in a previous post, I'd wondered where the so-called ill health affects
> of various forms of FGC had been found out.  What I mean is, how did "Westerners" come to know the
> so-called "ill health affects" and "harmfulness" of the practice in the first place.  The book I'm
> reading seems to answer my question, in that medical doctors during colonial times made reference
> to the practice.
>
>
>     You are correct in that education goes both ways.  I also do not feel that just because
> someone is "uneducated" in Western standards, that they are "ignorant" meaning that they possess
> no knowledge.
>
>
>     My attempt was to merely state that if us "Westerners" are going to "educate" people, we'd do
> well to actually understand, from a cultural / moral / other relevant perspective, where the
> people we are seeking to "educate" are coming from.  Why do people engage in what we consider a
> "harmful traditional practice"?  Is it really even harmful?  If so, how so, and do we go about
> stopping said practice or making it less harmful?  If it doesn't turn out to be "harmful", should
> we just not leave well enough alone.
>
>
>     I am well aware that "the West" has a terrible habit / legacy / continuation of imposing its
> moral values, culture, etc., on other groups of people.  It was definitely not my intention to do
> that.  You seemingly have one Cornelius Hammelberg seeming to agree that girls should be forcibly
> examined to see if they've undergone FGC, and going on about how "horrible FGM is", and not a peep
> from anyone, I don't think, except from Momodou Sidibeh and myself.
>
>
>     I certainly did not intend to portray some air of superiority onto other people.  However,
> sadly, I do also understand that sometimes things manifest themselves and you may say things,
> express opinions that may be, by their nature superior-sounding.
>
>
>     My intention though, was to say that we should educate ourselves on what exactly we are
> dealing with, if there is truly any "harm" involved, and then go from there.  And I say "we" as
> "Westerners", activists, health educators, and other relevant people.  The thought has occurred to
> me that perhaps "FGC" isn't really as "horrible" or "bad" as everyone's said it is.
>
>
>     What I meant by the statement "educating women on how their bodies work", was of course
> assuming that they'd not know that, however the unspoken assumption, for me anyway, was that they
> may already know "how their bodies work", and thus wouldn't be "educated".  I think the problem is
> that us "Westerners" are given a lot of misinformation about African culture, in general, one
> thing being that women are not educated about their bodies, etc.  I was thinking, though, that if
> any "education" was going to take place, perhaps it could take the form of "education" in things
> the women may not have known before.  However, I'd also guess that this, also, smacks of some sort
> of cultural imperialism.  Perhaps we as "Westerners" have no place in this discours at all, and
> should leave the "educating" up to women who are affected / who come from these cultures where
> this is practiced.
>
>
>     This is really a hard one to call, because those of us "Westerners" who are seeking to learn
> about African history, and who seek to throw off whatever notions of "cultural superiority" we do
> have, when we hear about the supposed horrors of FGC, etc., we not so much want to tell others how
> to live or what to do, but we seek to learn about the true nature of the practice and I want to
> say "educate" people about the harmful affects of said practice, if said harmful affects truly
> exist.  But again, I find myself choosing my words very carefully.
>
>
>     Perhaps we've just got it all wrong and the harmful affects described have been made up?  I
> don't know.  I can see how my post came across as somehow having an air of superiority, however,
> at the time, I was addressing someone who seemingly thinks that girls should be forcibly examined
> for signs of FGC, and if I remember correctly, he also went on about the excising of women's
> clitorises to the point of excess in my opinion, and also seems to suggest that racism no longer
> exists in the West, all comments that I, for one, found offensive and sought to address.
>
>
>     I'd like to know why the comments of a man who seems fixated with "women's clitorises" as he
> refers to that often in his posts, was never addressed, but posts from "one Ginny Quick" have
> seemingly offended some?
>
>
>     My first reaction to reading this was to get defensive, try to state my good intentions, and
> to try to clarify my position.  However, in past discussions, I have found that this does not
> work.  I will instead say that I did not intend to display any sort of cultural superiority, I am
> still in the learning process regarding this subject, and I definitely have a lot to learn.  As
> I'd also stated before, I have a lot of questions regarding this subject, and I don't think,
> especially after the few pages of this book that I have read, that we, as Westerners, should be
> traipsing into other people's countries, towns, and villages, and start harping on the "harmful
> practices" of FGC, if we don't even understand the people we are talking to.  And perhaps that was
> what I was trying to say initially.  And this is made worse when we walk in there and act like we
> are better than the people we are dealing with.
>
>
>     I will end by once again saying that my intention was not to offend, and that though I wonder
> why other people's comments, who I feel were more offensive than myself, were not responded to?
> However, I will leave this subject alone.  I feel I have been "hand-slapped" and "put in my place"
> as it were, as if to say "how dare you talk about this, you Western woman, you don't even know
> what you're talking about".  Point well taken, I will be silent from here on out on this matter,
> and continue to read and learn as much as I can.  However, should I have any questions, is there
> anywhere I can go and ask my questions, and get answers, and not be somehow told to remain silent
> or that I have no right to discuss this?  Because in us, as Westerners, trying to understand the
> true scope of FGC, there needs to be somewhere we can go and ask our questions and to learn the
> true nature of "FGC", without being made to feel that we've committed some sort of agregious
> offense by simply trying to learn.
>
>
> Ginny
>
>
>
>
>
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