Suntou, you are a very funny man. I just want you to know that.
 
[God is not doing any research on us.] Suntou.
 
How  do you know that???
 
[he  already new what you haruna will do from when your were a toddler to 
when you  die even before that.] Suntou.
 
And  yet She tests me if I will do exactly what She knew I would do. Then  
She destroys her own creation just to take inventory of what I had  done from 
birth to death to evaluate her own hypotheses.
 
I  guess we are prototypes of what She really intended to create on account 
of out  genetic uniquenesses.
 
[Edie claims that he believe in God but he is confuse about certain  things.] 
Suntou.

Me  too. Masoud. But I'm not confused about divine research.
 
[The Satan blames man for his fall from grace and he is doing all he can  for 
us too to incur the rapt of our creator.] Suntou.
 
Sounds like Shaitan's personal problem doesn't it?? And who created  
Shaitan??? I won't be bothered by Shaitan. I got my own problems.
 
[it's like the Mandingo saying ,bonoto kalafi anyun lella. a loser always  
wish for more losers.] Suntou.
 
Misery loves company.
 
[the Satan knows God very well. that is why when man sins he confess to  not 
having any thing to do such a person. The Satan's problem is arrogance and  
pride.] Suntou.
 
Again Suntou, it sounds like Shaitan's personal problems to  me.
 
[all man has to do is obey the commandments. the blue prints for our way  to 
God is stated in his commandments. but since God knew what every man is going  
to do, we are only fulfilling a that knowledge not changing it or altering 
it.]  Suntou.
 
Exactly. I obey the ten commandments of Moussa. But God/Allah is still  
conducting research on me for her own purposes. I obey the ten commandments  
because my parents taught me, and because they make sense for harmonious  
co-existence with my fellow man. I don't do it because I am a subject of  God/Allah's 
research. For I am not aware of divine process  there-in.
 
[we  decide through our actions were our final destiny lies.] Suntou.
 
A  final destiny that was pre-destined and chosen for us. How do you know I  
wouldn't like to choose another destiny different from Heaven or  Hell???
 
[if  you take God's words to be just fables, well and good, if you take them  
seriously again well and good.] Suntou.
 
Focus Suntou. You are digressing. We are not talking about God/Allah's  words 
simply because people place their own interpretations on such. What  we want 
to know is whether God/Allah is conducting research on us from your  
impression that She created us, created Shaitan, evicted us from Janna because  we 
mis-behaved, led astray by Shaitan, placed us on earth to test us further,  will 
recall us for judgement and inventory, will either place us in Hell or  Heaven, 
continue to monitor us. What I wanna know is when will the research  end????
 
[the message is clear. that is do good and give God his dues and you will  
attain eternal bliss.] Suntou.
 
Speak for yourself. Eternal bliss = research ad-infinitum. I look forward  
eagerly to the yield of such perpetual research.
 
[the basic requirement from us is to know God in the correct way, conduct  
the basic worship and live with him in mind.] Suntou.
 
Yes. And She will determine if we have done exactly what She had  ordained.

[if that is too difficult to comprehend then, we may analyse our  respective 
field of expertise and see who is wrong.] Suntou.
 
That wouldn't be necessary. It is not about who is wrong or right when it  
comes to divinity. It is about whether you have God/Allah in you.

[i will take Baba galeh here for instance, he is a great bloke, and  
intelligent fellow and highly qualified human being. yet he didn't say, i am  bless 
with intelligence let me relax in Farafeni and my intelligence will guide  me. 
he worked hard in school. he knew the field he is most capable of and he  
directed his energy on that path. he is already with a masters degree and has  
worked for high profile organisations. isn't that enough endeavour? to him no,  he 
is now pursuing a doctorate degree. why is Baba doing all that? is it easy  
attaining a masters degree? no. how many hours do one has to put in to get such 
 a high level education.? now coming to our other brother Lamin J Darboe. he 
is a  very intelligent brother whose intelligence was well known before he 
left the  Gambia. he attain the highest level of law studies in the u.s. he is a  
barrister. but did Mr Darboe just accept his intelligence and sit at home? he 
 worked hard for all he achieve. likewise many brothers and
sisters study the  things that interest them. God did not tell us to do those 
studies. we knew it  will help us in our future careers. we want the best in 
life.] Suntou.
 
Suntou, have you bothered to ask Galleh and JDAM why they are doing what  
they do???? And what does that have to do with God/Allah conducting research on  
them unawares????
 
 
[In our every day life, God is present with us in his knowledge. he is not  
dictating to us what to do. he send us our constitution and guide, his words  
through a man from among us. this man deliver the message of God. just like any 
 speaker, we are entitle to say, what a load of rubbish or what a waste of 
time  you are.
if one wants to understand the message of God, you take time  and analyse his 
messages in the books containing them, if you still think the  messages are 
vake, then consult the experts in that field, just like we consult  legal 
advisers, accountants, coaches, teachers, doctors, etc. we cannot have an  excuse 
in the hereafter.] Suntou.
 
You are all over the place. Suntou, are you now wanting to rephrase your  
supposition that God/Allah evicted from heaven because Shaitan enticed us into  
evil so we can continue to be tested here on earth for the later reckoning for  
inventory sakes to continue being subjects of research in heaven or hell as 
will  be determined by God/Allah????
 
[God told people in the Quran, " won't you ponder over the message i reveal  
to you?"] Suntou.
 
I did. And I continue to do that.
 
[He also told us to look into our own creation, there is a lesson for those  
who think. the anatomy of man is full of what amaze us every single day. the  
Satan is only there to distract us. we as men let him have control over us, we 
 let him rule us. the Satan has his own kingdom. he rule over the jinns and 
men  who obey him. he gave his followers things that they should have to wait 
for.]  Suntou.
 
And God/Allah created us, Saitan, and all the jinns.
 
[the confusion over the messengers is all man's determination to live the  
way he deem fit. a close example is when we have elected members representing us 
 in government. we expect this people to do what we voted them to do.]  
Suntou.
 
Forget the messengers and the representatives of govt. we voted for or will  
vote for. What does that have to do with God/Allah??? It seems to me these 
folk  have their own deamons and personal problems they must account for. That is 
why  we prosecute them here on earth before they answer to their creator for  
the other side of double jeopardy.
 
[but this men later becomes more powerful than us. they rather tell us what  
we should do not the other way round. they make laws that restrict our rights, 
 they lock us up and enjoy our tax revenue. yet we feel this people should be 
 listening to us. we normally tell them, next election , we will not vote for 
 you.] Suntou.
 
And whose faults are you sharing?? I hope you don't think those are  
God/Allah's faults.
 
[As for God ,the day he will ask us to give account, there will be no next  
time.] Suntou.
 
Advice: Don't wait for the day of divine judgement. Judge on earth and  
forgive or punish. Then let God/Allah do what She wills.
 
[this is why it is important that we don't make life more complicated than  
it is. we all Believe in God. But we need to believe the correct way. we need 
to  prove that we believe by doing the bare minimum required of us. if you are  
Muslims, pray the five daily prayers, fast during Ramadan, go for hajj in you 
 are capable, give zakat when you have the wealth. and firmly believe in The  
uniqueness and oneness of god without any partner or lookalike, without any  
concept that we are all gods or any thing like that.] Suntou.
 
The five pillars of Islam. Eemaan. I told you you are funny Suntou.  The 
moment I look away, you are right back where you began. I gotta watch  yew.
 
[i will now continue on the holy men's issue. the marabouts, the seriegns,  
the chernos.] Suntou.
 
I am not interested. They have their personal problems and deamons to deal  
with.
Masoud. MQJGDT. Darbo. Al Mu'umin.
 





Haruna Darbo  <[log in to unmask]> wrote:
In other words God/Allah is  conducting research on his creation. Ergo, we 
are only significant to her  and NOT ourselves. What success are we working 
toward ag
now  coming to one of our brother, Lamin J Darboe, he is also a high 
intelligent  pain?????

I think brother Sidibeh is unto something Suntou. The  Shaitan/devil is the 
conflicts within Ourselves and not a countervailing  force of divine research.

Haruna. I just remembered the landscape project  is not quite complete. My 
son has brought two key points to my attention.  One is divine, and the other 
is 
process. I shall share them with you my  friends under appropriate topic.


In a message dated 5/6/2008 5:47:28  P.M. Eastern Daylight Time, 
[log in to unmask] writes:

Brother  Edie, if you are following me, i am taking a sequence. i am coming 
to the  questions you asked.
what is imperative is that we understand our  relationship with god and then 
with the Satan. You don't need to worry about  the temptations of the Satan 
if 
you fully understand what God expects of  you. The reality of the state of 
the human being is such that, we are given  a freedom to choose between good 
and 
evil. that is part of our privilege  creation. since you are using practical 
examples to explain our  responsibilities as humans, i will do likewise to 
decode other  issues.

Mr sidibe, we all know that nothings comes that free, we work  hard for our 
success. suppose you work in a factory that manufacture mobile  phones. your 
boss told you that i trust you that you will not steal any  phone. and he fix 
some cameras to monitor you whilst you work. this cameras  cover every angle 
of 
the work place. but you know unless some thing major  happens your boss will 
not check the camera records. you start to steal some  phones once in a 
while. 
your boss never caught you but your actions are on  tape.
you work for that company until you are retired. your boss then plan a  send 
off for you. he never knew what bad things you have done.he trusted you  to 
do 
what is right with all the temptation to steal few phones.  
similarly, God's decision to let the devil tempt us is a test brother Edie.  
that test is the measure of our determination to obey him or obey our  
nemesis 
the devil. we cannot just be created to obey god, without any test,  that 
will not make us any different from other animals.
the test is the  key for our success or failure in the hereafter. just like 
we 
are given  exams in schools or universities.
the point you stated concerning " no one  will go to hell" is a concept that 
the nation of Islam preaches. but the  reality is that ,hell is a place for 
punishment and cleansing. we should all  pray that God forbid us from 
entering 
into it.
men like pol pot,Mobutu,  HITLER COMMITTED ACTS WHICH ARE horrible yet no one 
has punished them for  their actions, do you believe that those men will not 
get judged by their  creator? 
as Muslims we believe that hell is a test for all believers. those  who obey 
the commandments of GOD will be blessed with paradise and others  with hell. 
but the decision to either punish or bless lies only in god's  hand. the 
creation of the devil or Satan is part of test. he is needed to  test the 
obedience 
and promise of man. all that the devil tempt men can be  substitute with what 
is allowed by god. for instance, instead of adultery  one can marry. instead 
of consuming alcohol one can drink juice or water.  etc. i will continue 
later. 
the real issue here is why and how men give  their life to the Satan, be it 
in the name of arts and creativity, or  entertainment,wars,wealth,fame and 
over 
zealousity. we shall take a  sequence.thanks



since you are using practi

Edie Sidibeh  wrote:
Thank you again Mr.Touray for your clarification on the issue of  faith. 
However sir, you did not answer my question but pondering on the same  old 
story I 
have heard over and over again. What I am asking is the reason  why God take 
us out of the Garden to earth? also as why should God let satan  to exist if 
He/She did not Obey His will? God says that, everything on earth  is an 
example 
of that we will have in heaven. 

Taking that to  consideration, When swomeone works for a company for certain 
period and at  the end does not want to Obey the company's regulations 
disagreeing with the  owners and the owners have no other choice than sending 
Him/her 
packing,  should the company be mandated to paying him continuously for life 
or should  it be for certain period? Again God says before you worship me, 
you 
should  "try" to know me first. 

Again, knowing someone or somebody those not  come in a silver plate but 
asking a clarity about him and why he does  certain thing that does not 
motivate 
you to follow what he/she is preaching  concerning your interest. Some people 
will be critical if one will asked  certain question regarding God, some will 
tell that God doesn't want you to  asked many questions but to believe Him. 
Of 
course I believe in God as well  as the prophets but the stories that 
preachers said are those that are  confusing, as such, if God took us out of 
the 
Garden because we are sinful,  why will He take us back while we are not 
clean? 

Again, my stupid logic  told me that, GOD GAVE US THE SENSES WE ARE USING TO 
THINK FEEL TOUCH SEE  AND HEAR. These are things that we can use to know what 
is right and wrong,  therefore, why do we need Satan to influence us WHILE 
THE 
BRAIN IS THERE TO  ASSIST OUR SENSES? If something is term wrong it therefore 
satanic but  anything good is Godly, in this way who will take responsibility 
if  something goes wrong hence Satan is more powerful than we are. Therefore, 
 
everybody should go to heaven because we are powerless to resist things we  
cannot see feel or touch and hear.

That is why God said between me  and you no one will go to hell, because He 
knows that we are our own Satan  for that matter He said only between you and 
your fellow human-being will  take you to hell.

Again thanks for your  time.














/Brother Edie,  you are a very humble person. We are all students in this 
global village. Be  proud with what you know and express it so that others 
can 
learn from you.  The topic has been expanded. We shall include every thing 
relevant here. Our  learned brothers are a bit miserly, they don't easily 
part with 
knowledge.  Haruna is one educated brother.

Coming to the real issue of our  relationship as human beings with the Devil 
or Satan. i will put it in a  story form but it is how the scholars of Islam 
explained it.

Long  before man was created ,a being was among the angels. Angels don't 
disobey  the commands of God. They are created that way. The duties assigned 
to is  
done to perfection and they engage in the glorification of God all their  
life's. Among the Angels was the Devil or Satan or Jinn. He was created from  
Fire. He served among the Angels ,at one point rose to be among the  
leadership. 
What causes a high ranking being among the Angels to be banished  to 
oblivion? God in his infinite plans, started creating our ancestor Adam.  As 
Muslims 
we believe that God created Adam with his own hands. when Adam  was laying in 
a 
form of clay or mud. the Angels will be wondering what being  God is 
creating. The Satan started to be jealous of Adam has he lay in a  lifeless 
form. It 
is reported that, The Satan usually point its finger at  Adam's Tummy saying 
" 
i don't know what is this but if any thing his tummy  will be a big 
temptation 
for him". to this many scholars said, the Satan's  words proof true against 
us as humans, our quest for livelihood make us do  many horrendous things. 
all 
we pursue in life is related to our happiness  and comfort. from thief's to 
murderer.

When Adam was completed to the  human form, God then created a soul. The soul 
is not from God. The soul is  created. Then Adam's soul is breath into him. 
Then God authorised the Angels  and Satan to prostrate to Adam. God created 
us 
with honour and respect. To  this request the Angels fall down and 
prostrated. 
But the Satan  refused.
He disobeyed the command of God. This is a serious issue but the  Satan was 
ready to face any consequences. He was asked, why did you refuse  to obey the 
command of God? his answer, which is similar to what many human  beings say 
to 
day is " i am better than him, you created me from fire and  him from clay". 
God told the Satan ," i know things you don't know". but the  Satan was 
adamant. It refuse to bodge. He sealed his faith. What is the  difference 
between 
committing a sin and falling in a state of disbelief? to  commit a sin one 
knowingly do an act that he is forbidden from doing. to  commit disbelief or 
kuffur, one denies the the validity of there being any  wrong in his or her 
action. 
he/she don't belief the commands are reasonable  and valid. this is disbelief.
an example, God command Muslims not to commit  fornication and adultery. we 
as humans have many temptations. one way or the  other, you find yourself 
committing fornication. you accepts that it is  wrong but you followed your 
desire 
and commit a major sin in Islam which has  a stipulated punishment in here 
and 
the hereafter. but still you do it. That  is a sin.
but if you don't belief that fornication is a sin and that why  should it be 
a sin? it is a relationship between two consenting adult, it is  unreasonable 
for God to regard it a sin, then you have disbelief and  disregard God's 
commandments and his validity and existence.

What the  devil did was the later. He told God, i am better than Adam 
,meaning human.  i am made of fire, still coming to the discrimination issue. 
the 
statement  of the devil is thus, you God made a mistake. you were irrational 
and 
unjust  to tell me to bow down to an inferior creation of yours. whom he 
thought  don't deserve any honour from him.
God then asked him the Satan, what do you  want? i reward you now all the 
past deeds you have done or later? he opted  for a condition that He the 
Satan 
live till dooms day. that wish of him was  granted. Before parting he made a 
promise to God. That is " i will make all  the offspring of Adam, the man who 
is 
responsible for my banishment to  disobey you" .God replied ,you can only 
make 
those who listen to you disobey  me.
this is the condition we are in Edie. God never abandon us as humans. he  
through out our existence have send men among us with his message, his  
guidance 
and word. 
what is important for us as people to realise is  that, God has given us a 
brain. that set us apart from all other creatures.  we can differentiate what 
is 
good and what is not depending on our state of  mind. we can take time to 
read the books containing the words of God, we can  take time and asked those 
who 
spend their time learning about God and the  way to him. this is all our 
choice. but let no one mistake the words of  God's punishment for disobeying 
him. 
there is a hell fire and there is  paradise. there is a day of judgement. yes 
we may not be able to do acts  that will guarantee us paradise but obeying 
God's commandment is an  indication that we held him high and respect his 
words. 
i will continue  later brother Edie. thanks a lot. 

Edie Sidibeh wrote:
Thanks again  Suntu, 

I am not doing this to offend anyone but to clear my doubt on  certain issue 
regarding religion in general. I am really in a confusion  stage and I need a 
refurbishment from anyone as knowledgeable to set me free  as a result, God 
will reword you for opening the eyes of a blinded stupid  person like me. 

If however, the story of Adam and Eve is to go by like  it was narrated by 
both Islam Christianity, God took us out of the heaven  due to our sins so as 
to 
get our acts together before He took us back, then  do you think He will 
accept us while we are still dirty? I think anyone who  died, has completed 
his 
mandates, that is to say, he/she is clean from the  sin to take his or her 
place 
in heaven. We who are still alive, need to  complete our mandates like those 
who went before us. Therefore, if a person  is dead, we should thank God for 
him because he/she have pass the exam to  live in eternal life forever.

God says as well, the wisest among you will  gain from my unlimited gifts on 
earth as well as heaven. Now who are the  wisest, on earth? people who 
manufactured planes cars technological  equipment etc which are benefiting to 
millions of people, upon that, they  manufactured politics using it as a 
weapon to 
strengthen their positions.  However, I am not saying that the white people 
are 
as well the ones to go to  heaven, because I think going to heaven needs the 
recognition of your higher  self, your Creator. Recognising that what ever 
you 
manufactured was created  by Him hence without him bringing you to this 
earth, 
those products will  never be manufactured. 

Africa for example, is the richest continent in  the globe yet the poorest 
continent, Why? simply because white people came  to us, fool us, and teach 
us 
their political languages to be use as official  language, and teaches us the 
politics that we know nothing about and the few  that were wise among us were 
assassinated through the help of the white man  by their own people so that 
they can continued dealing with fools.  

However, in recently era, there came lots who are wiser in the system  and 
eager for changes but failed in using the politic wisely to gain but  wanted 
to 
challenge head-on to get what they rightfully own and in doing  that, they 
end 
up hurting their own people. What I am trying to say is the  fact that 
whoever God blessed no one can take that but to work with them  wisely by 
using 
their own tools of politic they teaches use to whip them  hence for now, we 
cannot 
manufacture our own politic which will be contrary  to theirs. All this 
religious countries are using western democracy one way  or the other because 
of 
its power and influences it carries. 

The  Kingdom of Saudi have never ever stage an election but due to the 
pressure  from the west, they recently stage one as well as giving rights to 
women 
to  vote and hold higher positions in strategic areas. Do they have the need 
to  
do that with vast amount of wealth in their disposal? yes they do because  
they wanted to use the politic to pave their ways through the skin of the  
west. 
Therefore, African leaders should open up their eyes and stop  challenging 
but work with these God given people by studying and using their  politic 
against them wisely to take our rightfull position in the club. This  is my 
own 
logic on what need to be done as well as the truth I think is how  things are 
in 
reality.
Edi

SUNTOU TOURAY wrote:
Thanks Edie.  you raise interesting issues as well. you are brave to state 
your notion on  religion and faith. since i am a bit short of time ,i will 
respond later in  detail. i know a lot about the marabout business. they are 
unlike 
the field  of studies you alluded to but still a wonderful take. from what 
you wrote, i  can see our difference in the understanding of agida. the 
Islamic 
creed. the  quran explicitly stated the existence of parallel beings,the 
jinns. we as  Muslims must accept that teaching. i hope more learned brothers 
here 
like mo  baldeh and others can elaborate on that but whatever the case i will 
comment  later. 

Edie Sidibeh wrote: Good piece of writing my dear Suntu and may  God bless 
you for refurbishing people's mind on this sensitive issue.  

Then again Suntu I have a doubt as such, who gave that magical power?  did 
they create those powers for themselves? God gave power to people to  make 
guns 
yet guns kills, He gave power to people to make cars planes boats  yet those 
creations are not completely save for human consumption. He gave  us mouth, 
hands, brains, legs and all the organs to use them in-order to  make our 
lives 
easier. 

He also said we should use these above powers  if it will make our lives 
easier in "good manner" by using our brains he  created and eye. He also said 
that 
those whom he have guided will never be  misled right. Therefore, I think, 
those who goes to the serigns or marabout  is also His creation to have the 
guts 
to go there and give the money they  are giving to get blessing in return if 
that also will make their lives  easier. God is more powerful than the 
serigns, therefore, whoever God have  guided, will never be influence by 
tricking of 
the marbouts with their  magics. If God did not agree with you going to 
Marbouts you will not be able  to do it because He is the ruler of your life 
and 
have created you and  whatever you do. Preachers also can be of the same 
category 
because lots of  them are rich from the donation given by their followers, 
Presidents,  directors, ministers, name just few are all using the power 
given 
to them by  God and is only few of them who are using their
brains and eyes for that  matter. 

Why is Satan created? is it just to say all bad influences are  created by 
him and Good ones by God? Logically, Satan is a fake or a cooked  product to 
play with people's mind by saying oh whatever good is God but  whatever bad 
is 
created by Satan. Satan never exist we are our own Satan  hence we have the 
brain and eyes to think and to see and realised what is  Godly and not. 
Traditionally, we are praying because we were born seeing our  fore fathers 
doing it and 
that is great because faith can move mountain and  can make one happy 
especially the poor who without faith will have shorter  life. 

Why will God create you after knowing already that you are going  to the hell 
fire? what is the use of Him creating you? God loves us very  much and will 
not take anyone to hell fire, because if you do bad, you will  see it before 
you die and if you do good is only good that will follow you.  Is only we 
humans 
who are always hesitant by looking at what others have and  you don't, that 
is why He said as well do not look at people who are over  you but those who 
are bellow you and always pray for them to be at the stage  you are, in this 
way, God will guide you and bless your progress. He said as  well no one will 
get 
to the hell fire because of Him but between you and  your fellow human-being 
will, hence He cannot forgive what you did to your  fellow human-being. I 
think whatever one did bad, will see it before dead  overtake you, either in 
your 
life time or the period of you dead when the  angel will take your breath 
away 
but you must pay for all what you did  because God need you
clean not while you are dirty.
Edi

SUNTOU  TOURAY wrote:
The mystical fellows in our communities has been with us since  when we 
cannot remember. Many among us have dealt with them, we have one way  or the 
other 
consulted them. but do you really know what sort of things this  men are 
doing? what is that we know about the serigns or marabout or moro's?  this 
infamous 
topic i will call who dares talk. why did i gave it that  strange title? it 
have to do with the strong believe that people has in the  powers of this 
men. 
from a perspective of Islam, this people can be  categorise into two groups. 
those who engage in acts of prayers and good  actions and maintain the 
spiritual standard required of a learned Muslim.  they conduct their acts in 
accordance with authentic sunnah or ways of the  prophets. they never claim 
any powers 
or means extra-ordinary, when people  ask them for prayers or duaas, they 
never hesitate to explain their human  limitations. all they do is ask God's 
favour for that particular person.  this group of marabouts are very few. to 
attain high status and closeness to  God has many requirements. among them is 
consuming what is lawful and that  which is acquire without deception and/or 
falsehood. in short eating from  halal earnings. this is a monumental task 
for all 
believers.
the second  categories of marabouts/seriegns is the mystical masters. they 
always have  an air of piety with them. they direct people to them self. they 
demand  money always. they use tricks and engage in secretive acts just to 

===  message truncated  ===


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