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Subject:
From:
Joe Sambou <[log in to unmask]>
Reply To:
The Gambia and related-issues mailing list <[log in to unmask]>
Date:
Wed, 3 Aug 2005 20:41:29 +0000
Content-Type:
text/plain
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text/plain (553 lines)
Edu, thanks for your thoughts.  However, you have answered not one of my
questions.  I asked you about specific and real life issues and you embarked
on a sermon.  I listed dead people for you and you just ignored that.  I
asked you about the millions that are being looted from our coffers, and
what do you do, proselytize.  You know you cannot honestly deal with these
issues with honesty and conclude that Gambians should be mum about them.
You think the outside world is not aware of these murders?  You think they
are not aware of the thieves and how they are ruining our country.  How can
you be so naive Edu, to think that investors are running away from Gambia
not because of what Yaya is doing to the people and investors, but because
of Joe and others pointing out the thief and criminal?  That makes no sense
what so ever.  Have I murdered any?  Have I stolen from Gambia?  If you
answer yes, then something is really wrong upstairs.  Can you say the same
for Yaya with a straight face?

You are right, being in Chicago, I could have just done like you, be content
that you are sending your folks money and let the rest that do not have that
help to wallow.  However, that is why we are different Edu.  We care about
those that do not have an Edu in the diaspora, that is why we are speaking
against the criminals and murders and we will continue to do that as long as
we have thieves and murders dragging us to the mud.  What amazes me with
people like you Edu, you talk all this game about "love of your country",
yet, your fellow citizens are being murdered and you say zilch about that.
Deyda was the last to be murdered, who do you think killed him, the Boy
Scouts?  Why can't you just come out and say you like what Yaya is doing to
Gambia and Gambians and save us from this love of country facade.  You could
have just reduced all that verbiage you sent earlier to just few words - I
like what Yaya is doing to Gambia and Gambians.  You would be within your
rights to support a thief and murderer, but precisely the reason why you do
not want to come out plain, becasue you know you cannot defend that
position.  Anyone who read your first piece saw that you clearly wanted to
bat for Yaya, but use the article for cover.

"What I am pointing out here is the character assassination of our peaceful
homeland."

Edu, are you equating Yaya and The Gambia as one and the same?  If you are
not, then what are you trying to say above?  We call Yaya a thief and a
murderer and Edu says that we are Character assassinating Gambia.  How is
Gambia peaceful when you have tens of state sponsored murders right in your
face, and still unsolved?  You also just heard your hero threatened Ousainou
Darbo with death, but Edu says the environment is peaceful.  But I bet you
if one of those people murdered was your uncle, brother, or cousin, you'd
sing a very different tune.  On the contrary, you Edu are the one detached
from the reality of Gambian living.  You may be among the very few who is
not aware of the hell our people live in.  I guess it is good to earn
dollars!

Chi Jaama

Joe

>From: Edward Secka <[log in to unmask]>
>Reply-To: The Gambia and related-issues mailing list
><[log in to unmask]>
>To: [log in to unmask]
>Subject: Re: FW: GENOCIDE IN THE GAMBIA? UN AND OTHER HUMANTARIAN AGENCIES
>             SHOULD EMBARK
>Date: Wed, 3 Aug 2005 13:46:39 -0500
>
>Joe,
>I am not trying to be no one's  advocate, I don't care about either you or
>Jammeh, But to the Gambia of The Patroitic  Gambians. What I am pointing
>out
>here is the character assasination of our peaceful homeland. You can say
>whatever to Jammeh and his Government, But spare the Good name of our
>country. If Jammeh goes wrong, tell him if you are not scared of him. But
>creating articles that would make foreign investors and keen supports of
>our
>country skeptical about our political stability and integrity will only
>hurt
>our nation. Certain comments of negativity will only hurt innocent citizens
>of the Gambia. Remember That, before you see the suffering of a government,
>It's subjects has to suffer first, because there is no fair politics, and
>human beings are selfish and corrupt by nature. If there is any political
>unrest in the Gambia, You and Jammeh would be the last people to suffer.
>You
>wanna know why? My main reason is that you are here in the US  being
>borderline mouthy and Jammeh have his thugs to protect him, while the
>masses
>in the Gambia are helpless. I  will not be happy with anyone who makes
>comments that will hurt our nation. If making Jammeh an enemy and
>critisizing him cannot solve the problem of the Gambia, why not come close
>to him and  intoxicate him with your so called positive Ideas.I know that
>he
>is not always right, but he is not without good intentions either. But some
>people will never commend a single good deed he has done for the Gambia.
>Joe
>remember that losing touch with our hearts will make us fall into confusion
>and as a result fools will try to sell us thier answers. The Gambia is a
>heart and denegrading her political stability and setting back her economic
>prospects will only harm the decent citizens at home, but not either you or
>Jammmeh. Joe I make my comments because I think that the stepping stones on
>the path to greater integrity is to live our values consistently, tell the
>truth and practice openess, for With strenght of character nothing is
>impossible when your heart expands to embrace the impossible. Joe, I once
>again affirm that, I don't intend to be nobody's advocate, but only
>expressing my opinion.
>Peace
>Edward Secka
>( aka Brime)
>Coppell Texas
>
>>From: Joe Sambou <[log in to unmask]>
>>Reply-To: The Gambia and related-issues mailing list
>><[log in to unmask]>
>>To: [log in to unmask]
>>Subject: Re: FW: GENOCIDE IN THE GAMBIA? UN AND OTHER HUMANTARIAN AGENCIES
>>             SHOULD EMBARK
>>Date: Wed, 3 Aug 2005 14:49:08 +0000
>>
>>Alieu, I agree with your thoughts and we need not sensationalize the news
>>or
>>events, just present the facts.  If the government of Yaya Jammeh does not
>>provide answers as usual, and goes on to bury theses victims, more
>>questions
>>will be asked by Gambians.  However, the word Genocide is misplaced in
>>this
>>instance.
>>
>>Now to Edu, yes, as a Gambian you have a right to your opinion of Jammeh,
>>but the facts against Jammeh cannot be refuted either.
>>
>>"As for myself I might disagree with Jammeh any time he goes wrong, but I
>>will never fault any of his good intentions or try to sell out by killing
>>the dignity of this tiny nation".
>>
>>Edu, is it unpatriotic to demand that Yaya and his government tell
>>Gambians
>>who killed Deyda, the students, Koro, and many unaddressed murders in the
>>country?
>>
>>Is it unpatriotic to demand answers from Yaya to account for the Central
>>bank heist and the millions of dollars missing from our coffers?  Is it
>>unpatriotic to demand answers to Yaya's sources of personal spending,
>>etc.?
>>
>>And so, what are you requesting of Gambians?  If you are satisfied that
>>Yaya
>>is doing a good job, well, be his advocate and tell the rest of the world
>>the good work he's doing.  But to tell the masses that see nothing but a
>>thief and murderer to shut up, come on, you know that is not going to
>>happen
>>in three life times.  Amazing but true, even Hitler, Amin, Bokassa,
>>Mobutu,
>>et al had admirers and friends, so let it be with Yaya too.  However, you
>>cannot use this article to give Yaya a good grade here, way too cheap.
>>Bro,
>>if it stinks, we ain't gonna say we smell sweet, but describe the stink
>>itself.  That is what some of us here are about, and it has nothing to do
>>with a spirit of any kind, but for a Gambia free of master thieves,
>>murderers, and massive poverty.
>>
>>Chi Jaama
>>
>>Joe
>>
>>
>>>From: Edward Secka <[log in to unmask]>
>>>Reply-To: The Gambia and related-issues mailing list
>>><[log in to unmask]>
>>>To: [log in to unmask]
>>>Subject: Re: FW: GENOCIDE IN THE GAMBIA? UN AND OTHER HUMANTARIAN
>>>AGENCIES
>>>             SHOULD EMBARK
>>>Date: Tue, 2 Aug 2005 17:43:05 -0500
>>>
>>>Alieu,
>>>You are very right, This Author does not know the meaning of genocide. I
>>>guess  after observing most of the comments from some people here, I
>>>would
>>>sum it up,that some of us are not fair to our country and government. I
>>>could disagree with my government whenever they go wrong, but it is my
>>>duty
>>>not to make any such comments that will kill the integrity of my country.
>>>I
>>>will never give up my country for any reason. I might agree or disagree
>>>with
>>>my government but to denegrading my country is unpatriotic and should be
>>>ruled out as  very insane. Some folks here need to wake and realise how
>>>some
>>>of their comments can hurt the Gambia. Some folks here have no respect
>>>for
>>>the Gambia. They don't realise that respecting not only those who respect
>>>you , but also those who don't will increase their respect and create
>>>essential harmony for our nation. The Gambia does not belong to any one
>>>person, but to  All Gambians, so If you cannot commend the government for
>>>their good intentions or point out their bad ideas by giving a better
>>>solution to the problems of The Gambia , I think we need to hold it down
>>>by
>>>law and shut up . As for myself I might disagree with Jammeh any time he
>>>goes wrong, but I will never fault any of his good intentions or try to
>>>sell
>>>out by killing the dignity of this tiny nation.To The Author of such a
>>>nasty
>>>article I say " Blame and attack, Rage and resentment perpetuate cycles
>>>of
>>>violence and pain. To make a better Gambia we should look beyond friends
>>>and
>>>foes, profit and loss, fame and disgrace inorder for us to prevail with
>>>dignity." I am open to debate this issue with any negative spirit that
>>>has
>>>a
>>>problem with my comments.
>>>Peace
>>>Edward Secka
>>>Coppell Texas
>>>
>>>>From: Alieu Darboe <[log in to unmask]>
>>>>Reply-To: The Gambia and related-issues mailing list
>>>><[log in to unmask]>
>>>>To: [log in to unmask]
>>>>Subject: Re: FW: GENOCIDE IN THE GAMBIA? UN AND OTHER HUMANTARIAN
>>>>AGENCIES
>>>>             SHOULD EMBARK ON CONFLICT RESOLUTION NOW!!!!!
>>>>Date: Mon, 1 Aug 2005 12:53:30 -0000
>>>>
>>>>Pa Ndery,
>>>>
>>>>Who is the author of this story? Does the person know the meaning of
>>>>genocide?,I wonder! In as much as I agree with the atrocious nature of
>>>>the
>>>>"alleged crime" leading to the deaths that were discovered around
>>>>Brufut,it
>>>>is ignorant and outrageous to equate that to a genocide. Genocide of
>>>>which
>>>>race, tribe, ethnicity or nationality? It is not good to be too
>>>>sensational! Some investigations are ongoing, and the
>>>>nationalities/identities of the corpses are not yet confirmed and yet
>>>>this
>>>>author went headlong to describe the incident as a genocide. I agree
>>>>that
>>>>the unjustified killing of one person by any other person is a grievous
>>>>crime and injustice,let alone the number in question here. This one is
>>>>yet
>>>>to be described, let alone confirmed as a genocide warranting action by
>>>>the
>>>>UN.It "seem" some crime is involved but certainly this for now cannot be
>>>>called a genocide!!!
>>>>
>>>>We do have issues in The Gambia requiring some support from outside, but
>>>>that should not make us become unduly sensational, even though the
>>>>intention may be to attract much needed attention on The Gambia.
>>>>
>>>>So Pa if you are the author take note; if you are not ask your source to
>>>>take note and then make it a habit to scrutinise articles before making
>>>>postings on the listserv...We are not too ignorant to read between the
>>>>lines....
>>>>
>>>>Many Thanks
>>>>
>>>>Alieu
>>>>
>>>>-----Original Message-----
>>>>From: The Gambia and related-issues mailing list
>>>>[mailto:[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of Pa Nderry M'bai
>>>>Sent: Sunday, July 31, 2005 5:05 PM
>>>>To: [log in to unmask]
>>>>Subject: FW: GENOCIDE IN THE GAMBIA? UN AND OTHER HUMANTARIAN AGENCIES
>>>>SHOULD EMBARK ON CONFLICT RESOLUTION NOW!!!!!
>>>>
>>>> >From: panderry mbai <[log in to unmask]>
>>>> >Reply-To: [log in to unmask]
>>>> >To: [log in to unmask]
>>>> >Subject: GENOCIDE IN THE GAMBIA? UN AND OTHER HUMANTARIAN AGENCIES
>>>>SHOULD
>>>> >EMBARK ON CONFLICT RESOLUTION NOW!!!!!
>>>> >Date: Sun, 31 Jul 2005 18:03:10 +0100 (BST)
>>>> >
>>>> >The people of Brufut are mourning the deaths  of eight young men whose
>>>> >identities is yet  to be established.  The whole nation is shocked by
>>>>this
>>>> >high profile murder.   What's disturbing is that the police is yet to
>>>>come
>>>> >up with any leads as to who must have been behind this heinous and
>>>> >dastardly act.
>>>> >WHAT ARE YOU DOING
>>>> >WITH THE AILING SECURITY?
>>>> >There are different theories being advanced for the deaths of these
>>>>young
>>>> >men.  While the police Crime Coordinator was quoted by the local media
>>>>as
>>>> >saying that the incident appeared to be a "foul play" many people in
>>>>the
>>>> >streets of Banjul and its surrounding towns said the incident looked
>>>>like
>>>> >an organised crime group operating in the tiny West African country.
>>>> >
>>>> >The fundamental questions that comes to mind is:  What's the purpose
>>>>of
>>>> >such killings?  Who is/are to benefit from such ungodly act?  Why
>>>>choosing
>>>> >Brufut as the slaughtering ground?
>>>> >
>>>> >The saddest thing about these killings is that non of the murdered
>>>>young
>>>> >men  were found with an identification card,  in short (ID).  This
>>>> >confirmed well founded suspicion that the whole issue was well
>>>>coordinated.
>>>> >   Determining the IDS of these young murdered youths is a  billion
>>>>dollar
>>>> >question today in The Gambia.   As usual, the police could not tell
>>>> >Gambians what led to the killing of the youths.
>>>> >
>>>> >Call it yet another  act of genocide, you make no mistake.  Call it
>>>> >terrorism, you make no mistake.  We want to join the bereaved families
>>>>in
>>>> >mourning the deaths.  We hope and pray that the perpetrators of this
>>>> >dreadful act would be apprehended sooner or later.  That justice is
>>>>meted
>>>> >out to them without delay.
>>>> >
>>>> >While some government sympathisers want us to believe that those
>>>>killed
>>>> >were non Gambians,observers wondered  how come that such gruesome
>>>>murder
>>>> >was carried out in Gambia's soil without the state knowing anything
>>>>about
>>>> >it.   Is the administration of president Yahya Jammeh telling us that
>>>>our
>>>> >territorial security is so weak and fragile that outsiders can storm
>>>>The
>>>> >Gambia and killed these youths in Brufut,  without the NIA, police and
>>>>the
>>>> >Gambia's GNA border guards knowing anything about it.?  Is the
>>>>government
>>>> >of the day telling us that there is another organised crime group in
>>>>the
>>>> >country, beside the so called "Green Boys"?  Worrying times in The
>>>>Gambia.
>>>> >  That people can be killed with impunity.  That these killer(s) are
>>>>still
>>>> >walking in the streets as free men.
>>>> >
>>>> >The Brufut mass murder resembles, the Rwandan "genocide", where
>>>>civilians
>>>> >were summarily executed in grand style.   Is the same scenario being
>>>> >practise in The Gambia?  What we are saying is that the government
>>>>should
>>>> >do justice to itself and end these madness taking place in The Gambia.
>>>>If
>>>> >Yahya Jammeh feels that he  cannot protect Gambians and non Gambians
>>>>are
>>>> >like, he should vacate the presidency honourably.
>>>> >
>>>> >The security of the state is indeed threatened.  These reports of
>>>> >mysterious murders, abductions, torture and unlawful arrests does not
>>>>speak
>>>> >well of a regime which is notorious of being undemocratic.
>>>> >
>>>> >While the killings of these youths is attracting a lot of controversy
>>>>in
>>>> >The Gambia, a  top security chief  in The Gambia  said "the murder
>>>>must
>>>> >have some political connotations in view of what he called the
>>>>mounting
>>>> >political tension in the tiny West African country".  The security
>>>>chief
>>>> >says"there is reason for any action and i do believe that these
>>>>killings
>>>> >are not isolated incidents.  We must thoroughly looked at how the
>>>>bodies
>>>> >were disposed in the outskirt of Brufut.  We must start asking whether
>>>> >these youths were possessing information that may affect certain
>>>> >individuals in the country.  Sometimes accomplices do resort to such
>>>> >barbaric acts.  I'm not implying  that this is the real cause, but it
>>>>could
>>>> >be a possible factor for the killing of these youths.
>>>> >
>>>> >The security chief says such high profile murders are usually
>>>>masterminded
>>>> >by individuals whose interests is affected in a particular revelation.
>>>> >"Such revelations may involve the issue of state security, business
>>>>and
>>>> >economic issues. "said the security chief.
>>>> >
>>>> >There is also this talk of a possible ritual.  Ritual for what?
>>>>Ritual
>>>> >against who?  Who with his right mind will buy that theory?  If this
>>>>ritual
>>>> >report is to go by then,  then we are in serious, serious trouble.
>>>> >
>>>> >Agreed, it's too premature for one to rule out any possible causes  of
>>>> >these killings.  But it's our contention that we address the issues at
>>>>hand
>>>> >and stop down playing the incident.  This is a national issue and it's
>>>> >incumbent upon every Gambian to help expose these deadly members of
>>>> >society.
>>>> >
>>>> >The Yahya Jammeh government should stop perceiving the opposition as
>>>>an
>>>> >enemy. The Gambia is today at war and it's greatest enemy is those
>>>>hiding
>>>> >under the cover of darkness to perpetrate  atrocities against our
>>>> >defenceless civilians.
>>>> >
>>>> >2004 is a difficult year for our impoverished nation.   Gambians and
>>>> >friends of The Gambia will continue to remember loved ones who died in
>>>>the
>>>> >hands of enemies of freedom.  As we mourned the "Brufut eight", the
>>>> >mysterious death of journalist Deyda Hydara is still lingering in our
>>>> >minds.The government of Yahya Jammeh is still being  hunted by the
>>>> >journalist's death, as there is no justifiable clues yet, regarding
>>>>the
>>>> >murder of journalist Hydara.
>>>> >
>>>> >The Brufut tragedy is a wake up call for Gambians that their some
>>>> >"misguided" elements in our midst hell bent on disturbing our
>>>>cherished
>>>> >peace.  Gambians should remain to be "each brother's keeper" during
>>>>this
>>>> >trying times our nation is experiencing.   We should stand up to be
>>>>counted
>>>> >and end these madness.
>>>> >
>>>> >The National Assembly which had reduced itself to be Yahya's
>>>>propaganda
>>>> >machinery should consider passing a bill to empower citizens to be
>>>>armed.
>>>> >Yes, our civilians should be armed, since the APRC government could
>>>>not
>>>> >guaranty their security.   When one talked about the issue of arming
>>>>our
>>>> >citizens, some APRC big wigs will accuse you of trying to undermine
>>>>state
>>>> >security.  Does such a call tantamount to undermining state security.?
>>>> >Hell no. It's a patriotic call and should be viewed in a positive
>>>>light.
>>>> >
>>>> >In the West, once you are 18 years of age and above you are qualified
>>>>to
>>>> >own  fire arms.  Such arms are subject to state control and
>>>>monitoring,
>>>> >which is very encouraging.  This will help to control abuse and other
>>>> >criminal activities.  It's time for Gambians,  to start advocating for
>>>>such
>>>> >a noble call to arm citizens.
>>>> >
>>>> >Having said this, we are urging the United Nations to send to a fact
>>>> >finding mission to The Gambia to investigate this genocide.  Africa
>>>>cannot
>>>> >afford to see another Rwandan genocide.  We all know the end results
>>>>of
>>>> >such atrocities. It's time to act now to avoid further secret
>>>>killings.
>>>> >
>>>> >While the UN and other humanitarian agencies spent billions of dollars
>>>>in
>>>> >rebuilding Rwanda, war ravaged Sudan, Sierra Leone,  Liberia and Ivory
>>>> >Coast,  enemies of freedom are still at work causing mayhem on the
>>>>Africa
>>>> >continent.  The UN should embark on a conflict resolution in The
>>>>Gambia
>>>>now
>>>> >  to end further  genocide.  Is this the beginning or the ending of a
>>>> >genocide in The Gambia?  It's time to act to save The Gambia.
>>>> >
>>>> >
>>>> >
>>>> >
>>>> >
>>>> >
>>>> >
>>>> >
>>>> >
>>>> >
>>>> >
>>>> >
>>>> >
>>>> >
>>>> >---------------------------------
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>>>>protection
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