Perhaps it is a private citizen who filed the compalint, however it
sure didn't stop Mugabe and the Herald from seizing on it, which,
well, we all know this is common in politics.  However, that was *not*
my point.  I guess if some want to continue to make Mugabe out to be
some kind of hero, who is never wrong, who never makes mistakes, etc.,
etc., all because he is "against the West", even though he is partly
responsible for the mess that Zimbabwe is in, and also for the deaths
of thousands of his fellow countrymen, etc.  I don't put the world
into blac-and-white "us versus them" terms because the world just
doesn't work like that!  The UK, the US, and other countries perhaps,
are and have been meddling in Zimbabwe's affairs, trying to
destabilize the government, because, well, take your pick of reasons.
However, if anyone says that "that caused Mugabe to just lash out and
do some things he should have done", or something to that affect, and
thereby make excuses for him, that is crazy to me!  So "the West" is
trying to interfere in his affairs, and let's just say that maybe
*some* peole are involved in this campaign of destabilization, as
so-called colaborators.  So you think they deserve to be killed?  What
about the innocent people who were accused of being colaborators?
Just becuase the opposed Mugabe?


See, this is the gray area I'm talking about!  Because all Mugabe has
to do is use "colaboration" with the West as an excuse and then he cam
go on another oppression and killing spree, or whatever it is he wants
to do.  And I'd like for someone to tell me how that is a good thing!?


Somoene mentioned to me off this list that Mugabe was once the
"darling of the West", and now they are trying to destablize him,
however, how many others has that happened to?  Ben Laden, Saddam
Hussein, just to name two.  But does that give them the excuse to
oppress and kill innocent people, as well as to enrich themselves and
to do whatever they can to stay in power!?


I don't agree with "the West's" attempts to meddle in other countries
affairs, and I also think that they have had a detrimental afect on
Zimbabwe, however, so has Mugabe!  And htus, Mugabe is not a hero to
me, just 'cause he figuratively told the West where to go!  Gosh, if
that is all it takes to make someone a hero to some of you, what
simple minds!


This reminds me of hte people I've come across who said we should
support Saddam 'cause he's a Muslim" and Ben Laden 'cause he's our
Muslim brohter and the west is after him", or something like that.
And why!?  Just 'cause he's part of "our" group, whether it's
Africans, Muslims, blakc people in gneeral!?


I, for one, don't support someone just becuase they happen to be of
the same "group" as me, whether it be gender, race, blindness,
religion, whatever!

What is right is right, what is worng is wrong!  If it is wrong for
Jammeh to kill and opress his own people, then it is wrong for Mugabe
to do it!  If Mugabe can use the west as an excuse, then why can't
Jammeh!?  How can we spend days talking about Yahya Jammeh, and how he
needs to be stopped, yet not even want to say anything when Mugabe
does the same sorts of things!?


Ginny



On 7/18/07, SUNTOU TOURAY <[log in to unmask]> wrote:
> brother kabir thanks for that. i was responding to the continous blaming of
> mugabe. the case was file by an ordinary citizen ,fine. they make it seems
> as if it the government pursuing the case. good clarification.
>
> Kabir Njaay <[log in to unmask]> wrote:  Suntou,
>
> Just to set the record straight, Mugabe or the government of Zimbabwe has
> nothing to do with this case.
>
> This is a civil case raised by by an ordinary citizen against the holy man
> for an alleged affair with his wife.
>
> Mugabe is just the white feathered guy on the block, if there was an
> earthquake in Zimbabwe today, God forbid, you'll hear them blaming it on
> Mugabe's dictatorial rule.
>
> Regards,
>
> Kabir.
>
>
> On 7/18/07, SUNTOU TOURAY wrote:
> >
> > ginny ,we are living in a world of flesh eating. the arcbishop never go
> > easy on mugabe so why should mugabe go easy on him ? tit for tat .the
> > archbishop should remember his reputation and standing ,no one is perfect
> > but to act appropriately is the best self help tool kit. he is oppossing
> the
> > president and you expect the president to turn a blind eye to mr
> > archhbishops shame ? or no .
> > that generation is no more .from the west to africa ,we shock each others
> > blood .from tabloid news papers to broad sheets ,they do a bit of
> character
> > assination. it is the turn of the archbishop ,so let him come out brave
> and
> > say ,i am sorry for what i did .period.
> >
> > Ginny Quick wrote:
> > Well, it sure doesn't help that Mr. Ncube, has engaged in this affair,
> > at least for his credibility, anyway. However, I'm sure that Mugabe,
> > et al, didn't waste any time in seizing on this opportunity to "shame"
> > Ncube. Wonder what would have happened if Ncube was a member of the
> > ruling party? Would there be editorials in The Herald talking of
> > "hsaming" him? OK, yeah, yeah, hypothetical situations and all of
> > that.
> >
> >
> > As far as him calling Mugabe a murderer and a monster, I've got two
> > words, Gukurahundi Campaign (oh but I guess the West made that up in
> > order to tarnish Robert Mugabe's image or osmething).
> >
> >
> > This whole issue with Zimbabwe is not a black-and-white thing, at
> > least not from what I've read, and yes, I've read, so no hand slapping
> > talking aobut how I don't know what I'm talking aobut!
> >
> >
> > While "the West", whatever entity that happens to be htis week, could
> > well be on a campaign ti destablizie Zimbabwe, Robert Mugabe is not
> > helping matters by turning on his own people and using the
> > justification that "they are just colaborators with the West" to do it
> > either.
> >
> >
> > Gosh, if Mugabe can use "the West" as an excuse for his behavior,
> > who's to stop other dictarors and despots from doing the same thing?
> > Yahya Jammeh anyone?
> >
> >
> > Perhaps Mugabe is educated, yes, perhaps "he was good during his early
> > days", or whatever, perhaps he fought for Zimbabw'es independnece,
> > however, where does that give him a pass to kill, murder and oprress
> > his own people? That's the one thing I've been not able to
> > understand. The way some people want to make him out to be a hero, or
> > to overlook his abuses of his own people, along with his attempts to
> > entrench himself in power, reminds me of how some used to treat Saddam
> > Hussein. Like "oh yes he's bad but he really cares about his people"
> > or whatever, all while he's murdering, gassing, etc. So back to
> > Mugabe, "oh he's standing up to the bad evil west" "he's standing up
> > tothe white man", etc., etc., etc., but what about his fellow
> > Zimbabweans that don't agree with his policies!? Don't they deserve
> > to be able to express that, and not be called colaborators, etc.?
> >
> >
> > We can sit here and complain of the sycofancy that we see regarding
> > Jammeh, but what of the sycofancy that we see toward others, like,
> > well, Mugabe? It's as though because he's deemed as a "hero" to some,
> > that it seems OK, for him to do some, but maybe not all, of the things
> > that Yahya Jammeh does, and yet Mugabe is, for some reason, given a
> > pass!
> >
> >
> > I find htat to be hypocritical, to have osme of the same people that
> > come and talk about Yahya Jammeh, to act as if people are lying or
> > odn't know what they're talking about or to say "you're just a stooge
> > of the West" when people bring up the fact that Mugabe has been
> > responsible for the murder and oppression of some of his own people!
> > Why is it OK for Mugabe and not Yahya Jammeh? The West has had their
> > hands in African affairs for how long? Yet, we don't see people
> > saying "oh so and so is standing up to them but that is OK"? How is
> > murdering your own people and not letting them speak freely "stanidng
> > up tot he West"? That is what I want to know!
> >
> >
> > Ginny
> >
> >
> >
> > On 7/17/07, Kabir Njaay wrote:
> > > *Pius Ncube Shamed*
> > >
> > > http://allafrica.com/stories/200707170131.html**
> > > **
> > > *The Herald* (Harare)
> > >
> > > OPINION
> > >
> > > 17 July 2007
> > >
> > > Posted to the web 17 July 2007
> > >
> > > By Munyaradzi Huni
> > >
> > > Bulawayo
> > >
> > >
> > > Archbishop sued for adultery OUTSPOKEN Roman Catholic cleric Archbishop
> > Pius
> > > Ncube of the Bulawayo Diocese is at the centre of a stinging adulterous
> > > allegation that has plunged him into a $20 billion lawsuit, following
> > claims
> > > that he had an affair with a married woman over the past two years.
> > >
> > > Under Roman Catholic Church practice, all those joining the priesthood
> > or
> > > nunhood -- including archbishops, brothers and sisters -- take strict
> > vows
> > > of celibacy, meaning they should maintain an unmarried status, and,
> > thus,
> > > abstain from sexual relations.
> > >
> > > A visibly shaken Archbishop Ncube, who has been at the forefront
> > demonising
> > > President Mugabe and the Government, was served with the declaration and
> > > summons yesterday morning by the Deputy Sheriff of Bulawayo.
> > >
> > > At the High Court, the case is recorded under HC1585/07.
> > >
> > > The papers show that Archbishop Ncube had an adulterous affair with Mrs
> > > Rosemary Sibanda, who has been legally married to Mr Onesimus Sibanda
> > since
> > > 2005.
> > >
> > > When contacted for comment, Mrs Sibanda first denied any knowledge of
> > the
> > > affair but when she was shown pictures of her taken in the Archbishop's
> > > bedroom while naked, she admitted having an adulterous affair with
> > > Archbishop Ncube for the past two years.
> > >
> > > In one of the many pictures, a naked Archbishop Ncube is seen cuddling
> > an
> > > equally naked Mrs Sibanda in his bedroom.
> > >
> > > The Archbishop was also pictured in the act with several other women in
> > the
> > > supposedly holy bedroom.
> > >
> > > The usually arrogant Archbishop Ncube went ashen, was at a loss of words
> > and
> > > could hardly contain the shock when he was shown the same pictures that
> > were
> > > secretly taken by a private investigator hired by the woman's husband.
> > >
> > > In his declaration served through his lawyers Dube-Banda, Nzarayapenga
> > and
> > > Partners, the plaintiff, Mr Sibanda, a radio communications technician
> > with
> > > the National Railways of Zimbabwe, alleged that on different occasions
> > since
> > > January 2006, Archbishop Ncube was involved in an adulterous sexual
> > > relationship with his wife.
> > >
> > > Reads part of the declaration: "On diverse occasions between the period
> > > beginning 2006 and in places particularly in the environs of Bulawayo
> > and St
> > > Mary's Cathedral, defendant illicitly associated and engaged with
> > > plaintiff's wife, one Rosemary Sibanda, in an adulterous sexual
> > relationship
> > > well knowing of the marital status of the plaintiff's wife.
> > >
> > > "As a direct result of the defendant's illicit and adulterous
> > association
> > > with the plaintiff's wife, the plaintiff has lost the love, comfort and
> > > society that he previously enjoyed with his wife. Plaintiff has been
> > > seriously humiliated, his dignity has been impaired, his religious
> > > inclinations and faith shaken and he has suffered loss of consortium as
> > he
> > > has had serious problems with his wife since January 2006.
> > >
> > > "Owing to the illicit and adulterous association, the plaintiff suffered
> > > damages as follows: $10 000 000 000 being adultery damages as the
> > defendant
> > > has abused his trust and position and engaged in an adulterous
> > relationship
> > > with plaintiff's wife despite full knowledge that she was married. The
> > > marriage was solemnised in the Roman Catholic Church; $5 000 000 000
> > being
> > > loss of consortium; and $5 000 000 000 being loss of contumelia.
> > >
> > > "Wherefore plaintiff prays for an order for payment of the sum of $20
> > 000
> > > 000 000, being damages for adultery, contumelia and loss of consortium
> > > suffered by plaintiff as a result of the defendant's illicit and
> > adulterous
> > > affair with plaintiff's wife," reads the declaration.
> > >
> > > The summons at the High Court read: "Plaintiff claims as against
> > defendant
> > > are for:
> > >
> > > "(a) An order for payment in the sum of $20 000 000 000 (twenty billion
> > > dollars), being damages for adultery, contumelia and loss of consortium
> > in
> > > respect of defendant's unlawful, malicious and illicit association with
> > > plaintiff's wife well knowing of plaintiff's wife's marital status, the
> > > result of which was the alienation of love, loss of comfort and society
> > in
> > > the marriage between plaintiff and his wife.
> > >
> > > (b) An order for payment of interest at the prescribed rate on the sum
> > of
> > > $20 000 000 000 mentioned in (a) . . . from date of service summons to
> > date
> > > of full and final payment.
> > >
> > > (c) An order for payment of costs of suit at an attorney and client
> > scale."
> > >
> > > Archbishop Ncube was asked to enter an appearance to defend within 10
> > days
> > > at the High Court in Bulawayo.
> > >
> > > If the Archbishop fails to do so within the stipulated time, the claims
> > by
> > > the plaintiff will be heard and dealt with by the High Court without
> > further
> > > notice to the Archbishop.
> > >
> > > Following the interest that was shown by the media in the matter, the
> > lawyer
> > > representing the plaintiff, Mr Munyaradzi Nzarayapenga of Dube-Banda,
> > > Nzarayapenga and Partners, addressed a Press conference at his offices
> > where
> > > he confirmed that his client had asked him to serve Archbishop Ncube
> > with
> > > the summons.
> > >
> > > "For a long time my client has been suspecting that his wife, a senior
> > > church committee representative at St Pius Parish, has been involved in
> > an
> > > adulterous relationship with the Archbishop of the Diocese, Pius Ncube.
> > >
> > > "At one point he wrote to Archbishop Pius Ncube to register his
> > displeasure.
> > > The Archbishop wrote back denying any adultery with my client's lawful
> > wife.
> > >
> > >
> > > "My client has uncovered evidence that suggests that the Archbishop of
> > the
> > > Roman Catholic Bulawayo Diocese, Archbishop Pius Ncube, is having an
> > > adulterous relationship with his wife, Rosemary Sibanda, a secretary of
> > the
> > > St Anne's Association of St Pius Church in Njube, Bulawayo.
> > >
> > > "My client has instructed and we have issued summons against the
> > Archbishop
> > > for causing my client untold suffering, pain, loss of companionship,
> > etc.
> > >
> > > "I can confirm that the Deputy Sheriff of Bulawayo has already served
> > the
> > > summons and declaration to the Archbishop," said the lawyer.
> > >
> > > Mr Sibanda looked pensive as he sat next to his lawyer at the Press
> > > conference.
> > >
> > >
> > > On 7/17/07, OMAR DRAMMEH wrote:
> > > >
> > > > Zimbabwe's archbishop accused of adultery
> > > >
> > > > Chris McGreal, Africa correspondent
> > > > Tuesday July 17, 2007
> > > >
> > > > Guardian
> > > >
> > > > Zimbabwe's Roman Catholic archbishop, Pius Ncube, a strident critic of
> > > > Robert Mugabe's rule, was accused yesterday of a two-year adulterous
> > > affair
> > > > with a secretary at his church in a lawsuit that his lawyers described
> > as
> > > > politically motivated.
> > > > But Archbishop Ncube declined to explicitly deny the affair when he
> > spoke
> > > > to the Guardian yesterday.
> > > >
> > > > In legal papers served on the archbishop in Bulawayo, Onesisums
> > Sibanda is
> > > > demanding 20bn Zimbabwe dollars (£80,000) in damages from the cleric
> > for
> > > the
> > > > alleged adultery with his wife, Rosemary. The state-run Zimbabwe
> > > > Broadcasting Corporation said Ms Sibanda, who worked at St Mary's
> > > Cathedral,
> > > > admitted the affair in an interview.
> > > >
> > > > ZBC followed court officials into the archbishop's office in a move
> > that
> > > > his lawyers said was evidence of an orchestrated attempt to destroy
> > his
> > > > credibility because of his virulent criticism of the government,
> > including
> > > > calling Mr Mugabe a murderer and a monster.
> > > >
> > > > But the archbishop, speaking to the Guardian yesterday, declined to
> > deny
> > > > the affair, even though he was asked three times if there was any
> > merit to
> > > > the accusation. He said he would wait for the matter to come to court
> > and
> > > > that the accusations were politically motivated.
> > > >
> > > > "You see these people are always following me and trying to find
> > something
> > > > to try and fix me," he said. "There were a dozen news men accompanying
> > > this
> > > > man [Mr Sibanda] to the court and then they splashed this before even
> > > giving
> > > > me the summons."
> > > >
> > > > Adultery is illegal, although rarely prosecuted, in Zimbabwe.
> > > >
> > > > The accusation comes a week after Archbishop Ncube returned from South
> > > > Africa, where he launched a report that accused the Zimbabwean state
> > of
> > > > torture and illegal killings. "Mugabe is a man who is a megalomaniac.
> > He
> > > > loves power, he lives for power. Even his own party is appealing to
> > him to
> > > > step down," he said in Johannesburg.
> > > >
> > > > The archbishop has been forced to qualify some of his stronger
> > statements,
> > > > including a call to Christians in Zimbabwe to pray for Mr Mugabe to
> > die.
> > > >
> > > > For several years he was at odds with most of his own bishops in his
> > > > strident criticism of the government, but in recent months the
> > archbishop
> > > > galvanised them into issuing a letter read in churches that likened
> > > popular
> > > > opposition to Mr Mugabe's "racist, corrupt and lawless" government to
> > the
> > > > country's liberation war against white rule.
> > > >
> > > > Zimbabwe's president has described him as a "half-wit".
> > > >
> > > > +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > > From: Kabir Njaay [[log in to unmask]]
> > > > > Sent: 2007-07-17 16:14:14 CEST
> > > > > To: [log in to unmask]
> > > > > Subject: Fwd; Vlok to Be Charged Over Chikane
> > > > >
> > > > > *Vlok to Be Charged Over Chikane*
> > > > >
> > > > > http://allafrica.com/stories/200707170159.html
> > > > >
> > > > > *Business Day* (Johannesburg)
> > > > >
> > > > > NEWS
> > > > >
> > > > > 17 July 2007
> > > > >
> > > > > Posted to the web 17 July 2007
> > > > >
> > > > > By Ernest Mabuza
> > > > >
> > > > > Johannesburg
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > FORMER law and order minister Adriaan Vlok, former police
> > commissioner
> > > > Johan
> > > > > van der Merwe and three other men would be charged with the
> > attempted
> > > > murder
> > > > > of Frank Chikane, a former anti-apartheid activist and now
> > > > director-general
> > > > > in the Presidency, the National Prosecuting Agency said yesterday.
> > > > >
> > > > > This is the first case of prosecution of apartheid-era atrocities in
> > > > which
> > > > > alleged perpetrators were denied amnesty by the Truth and
> > Reconciliation
> > > > > Commission or did not seek amnesty, and it follows an amended
> > > > prosecution
> > > > > policy drafted last year to deal with such people. More than 7000
> > > > petitions
> > > > > were received and 849 people were granted amnesty.
> > > > >
> > > > > Agency spokesman Panyaza Lesufi said the five were due to appear in
> > the
> > > > > Pretoria High Court next month to explain their roles in the
> > attempted
> > > > > murder in 1989. In 2004, Vlok and four others were to stand trial
> > for
> > > > the
> > > > > attempted murder but the case was withdrawn as the agency did not
> > have
> > > > > guidelines on how to proceed with truth commission cases.
> > > > >
> > > > > Vlok did not admit to poisoning Chikane at the commission, but
> > sought
> > > > > amnesty for the bombings of Khotso House and the South African
> > Catholic
> > > > > Bishops' Conference headquarters.
> > > > >
> > > > > Vlok met Chikane last August and washed his feet, seeking
> > forgiveness
> > > > for
> > > > > past deeds. Chikane said that while he accepted Vlok's gesture, he
> > > > wanted
> > > > > the law to take its course regarding the attempts on his life.
> > > > >
> > > > > Lesufi also announced the National Prosecuting Agency found the
> > remains
> > > > of
> > > > > what were believed to be the bodies of the "Pe bco Three" in Cradock
> > > > last
> > > > > Thursday. Sipho Hashe, Champion Galela and Qaqawuli Godolozi of the
> > Port
> > > > > Elizabeth Black Civic Organisation disappeared from an airport in
> > Port
> > > > > Elizabeth in 1985.
> > > > >
> > > > > The late former security policeman Gideon Niewoudt said their bodies
> > > > were
> > > > > burnt and thrown into the Fish River.
> > > > >
> > > > > Lesufi said the remains of three bodies were found in a septic tank.
> > > > >
> > > > > ¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤
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To unsubscribe/subscribe or view archives of postings, go to the Gambia-L Web interface
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To Search in the Gambia-L archives, go to: http://listserv.icors.org/SCRIPTS/WA-ICORS.EXE?S1=gambia-l
To contact the List Management, please send an e-mail to:
[log in to unmask]
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