No the cloud of witnesses are the Saints who have died and gone before us.
This is why they are referred to as the cloud of witnesses. Further, Samuel
was called up by the witch of Andorra and asked why this was because of two
reasons. Firstly Jesus hadn't come yet and he was not in heaven yet. He
wouldn't be till Jesus came to free him through his death. Secondly, Saul
called him up because of his selfishness not for a Godly reason, and Samuel
probably didn't feel the need to assist him. As far as Divvies is
concerned. The saints don't witness to people the assist with support and
intersession as do all of us who are on earth. If we can ask any on this
list whom we don't know to pray for us why can't we ask our dear Christian
mother or father who has already gone to be with the lord. Just because
people go to be with god doesn't mean they forget their loved ones whom they
would have probably died for on earth. Also, the Christians such as Saints
peter and Paul who were martyred for their faith. Do you think they no
longer care for us at least as a Christian community, particularly as they
died for their faith and spent the later part of their lives spreading the
gospel? Also, as I said in my last post on the subject there was Elijah and
mosses who appeared with our lord on the mount of transfiguration. They
came to him to support him because he was to face an enormous trial and he
needed the strength they could give him because he was a man as well as
being divine. They spoke to him privately and he didn't faulter when he
went to the cross. Heaven isn't just a place which becomes alive for us
when we die. It is full of activity here and now. What about the
admonition to watch the way we entertain because we may be entertaining
angels unaware. I will end this too long e-mail now but I just wanted to
mention those few things.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Karen Carter" <[log in to unmask]>
To: <[log in to unmask]>
Sent: Friday, July 22, 2005 1:27 PM
Subject: Re: question, problem, and prayer request.
> Well the word says that all things of this earth are remembered not more.
> I was thinking the cloud of witnesses were the people whe have lived a
righteous life before us. Like oour christian perents set an example would
be part of the cloud of witnesses. And the surrounding verses tell us to be
around other christians the part of the cloud of witneeses.
> And in 1John 5:6-13.
> When the one man called u[ Samual he was unhappy and asked Why did you
call me up let me rest.
> Jesus did not die. His body did but it was resorrected and he lives.
> And why did the man who died and went to hell have to ask Lazareth to give
him a drink and ask him to witness to his family if he could hear them why
doesn't he witness and Lazareth told him you did not believe while you were
alive wo why should they believe a dead man
> What kind of Heaven would it be if the saints had to know all the trouble
on earth. I am sure they are to busy worshiping the Lord tow worry about
our troubles
>
> --
> Christ is either Lord of all or he is not Lord at all.
> Karen Carter '74
>
>
>
> > How do you know the saints can't hear our prayers? St. Paul said we are
> > surrounded by a cloud of witnesses. Elijah and Moses appeared with our
lord
> > on the mount of transfiguration, and that abominable seance the witch of
> > andora performed with saul to call up Samuel was an example of the dead
> > hearing us when we speak. When we are absent from the body we are
present
> > with the lord. If Jesus and God hear our prayers what causes you to
think
> > the saints can not.
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: "Karen Carter" <[log in to unmask]>
> > To: <[log in to unmask]>
> > Sent: Thursday, July 21, 2005 1:35 PM
> > Subject: Re: question, problem, and prayer request.
> >
> >
> > > Well being prostatant or Carholic really has nothing to do with a
blessed
> > wedding. It is our relationship with Jesus and performing the cremony
to
> > unite one another in Christ is for witniessing to man that you are
committed
> > to one another in Christ. Christ knows what is in the heart wether we
are
> > prostant or catholic. I was catholic at one time and Ijust thought
there
> > was too much repatitous ceremonial pratctice and no personal
relationship
> > with Jesus. I can pray right to God and not through the preist. or
saints
> > that can't hear our prayers.
> > >
> > > --
> > > Christ is either Lord of all or he is not Lord at all.
> > > Karen Carter '74
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > > Ms. Carter What does this mean?
> > > > ----- Original Message -----
> > > > From: "Karen Carter" <[log in to unmask]>
> > > > To: <[log in to unmask]>
> > > > Sent: Tuesday, July 19, 2005 1:20 PM
> > > > Subject: Re: question, problem, and prayer request.
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > > I am proud to be a protetant not cremonal.
> > > > >
> > > > > --
> > > > > Christ is either Lord of all or he is not Lord at all.
> > > > > Karen Carter '74
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > > Gosh this is strange. It is this kind of talk which makes me
glad I
> > am
> > > > not
> > > > > > a protestant if those are the sort of things you practice. I
think
> > a
> > > > > > wedding conducted in such a fashion would be surely desecrating
a
> > > > blessed
> > > > > > and holy sacrament.
> > > > > > ----- Original Message -----
> > > > > > From: "Jenifer Barr" <[log in to unmask]>
> > > > > > To: <[log in to unmask]>
> > > > > > Sent: Monday, July 18, 2005 5:54 PM
> > > > > > Subject: Re: question, problem, and prayer request.
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > > you're not serious. *smile*
> > > > > > > ----- Original Message -----
> > > > > > > From: "Phil Scovell" <[log in to unmask]>
> > > > > > > To: <[log in to unmask]>
> > > > > > > Sent: Monday, July 18, 2005 5:48 PM
> > > > > > > Subject: Re: question, problem, and prayer request.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > Speaking of doable, Jennifer, I can conduct a wedding right
over
> > the
> > > > > > phone
> > > > > > > > for you and it won't cost you guys a thing. We can even do
a
> > three
> > > > way
> > > > > > so
> > > > > > > > we can have witnesses.
> > > > > > > >
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