Thanks Brad,
Your post is letting me know that I handled the conversation well 
yesterday.  I pretty much just let him report in, as an adult.  I 
think that you would have been proud.  what I get left with, however, 
is that under current of, "you little bugger!  When are you going to 
quit the games and grow up!"  Wisely, I bite my tongue, but my tongue 
is getting pretty swollen!  GRIN!
Thanks for the guidance!
Kathy


At 08:21 PM 1/17/2006, you wrote:
>Kathy,
>
>Got a cup of coffee at the ready to read this? lol. I understand exactly
>what you are saying. I've seen it many times with the history of alcohol
>and drug abuse in  my family. No matter what you do, or don't do, it can be
>used against you. You say something to him, and "you are picking on Me",
>"trying to run my life", "just don't understand", "jumping to conclusions",
>"think you are so perfect and high and mighty", and on and on and on. You
>don't say anything and it's "you don't care", "you just sit and watch me
>fall on my face and say nothing", "you don't love me or else you'd have
>helped me", "your words say one thing but your actions say another" and on
>and on and on and on. Perhaps not that explicit in your case but the
>inference is there I'd bet.   Take my words below for what ever... you are
>living it not I, but saying and proving you love him is a "yah". Saying he
>is manipulating and you don't care for it? Is a "nah". Why nah? Because he
>knows this already, he's lived with you for 17 years. He saw your
>disapproval with his attempts to manipulate, your other kids as they tried
>it with testings of growing up, perhaps grown ups you've associated with
>and talked about around the house as well. He knows your position I'm next
>to positive. He also, being a manipulator, doesn't like to lose at a game
>he prides himself on survival in sticky situations so he views being caught
>as a failure and will only get mad at himself, and you, then dig in deeper,
>then making it harder on you to remain in that constant love. He'll make it
>harder for you for punishment. That is just my thought. I guess you could
>just not open your self up to being used or manipulated. That will say much
>more than stating it in words.  For one thing, expect his calls to come out
>of the blue, that way you aren't focusing on getting caught off guard as it
>were. Expect he'll try to manipulate you, don't dwell your thoughts on it,
>but when you pick up the phone, and it's Chris, be happy to hear from him
>as if it were a friend of yours who you know has history of using you a
>bit, but yet you love them. Then just  don't fall for his dramas. Let him
>know in action that manipulation won't work.  Be diplomatic about it. You
>know what diplomatic is according some famous guy who I can't remember the
>name of? lol. It is selling someone a ticket to hell in such a way they
>can't wait to go. Point being treat him like an adult, like he is  your
>adult kid and on his own. Let him make his own messes, don't create a
>spiteful situation or purposefully get his goat, because I'd think he'd
>just shut down to anything positive you have to say. I know perhaps you
>disagree with this as it came up before but it sort of falls in my point.
>If Chris is half looped up and drives over to your house? Pulls in the
>drive and you take the keys and  call a cab or someone to bring him home.
>Great. Don't call the cops. If he on the other hand pulls in the drive half
>looped up and smashes in your  garage door? Then call the cops, you need a
>police report anyway for insurance, and he'll learn a lesson in the process
>and although might say differently, he'll know you did what you did because
>you had to, not because you want to. It is like Phil posted one day...
>"What is truth?". Truth is what we believe it to be whether it is or not.
>That is our definition, not God's. If we believe eating peas on Friday
>nights will get us saved, we believe that to be a truth, we act according
>to that belief, and we expect others to respect that and fall in
>accordingly when dealing with us. Will eating peas on Friday nights save
>us. Of course not but that doesn't matter when we are dealing with the
>person who thinks it, especially if we want to change their mind. Coming
>out and just blatantly telling them eating peas on Friday won't save them
>will only offend them, get them mad, turn them off to anything else you
>want to say, and you get nowhere. A subtle manner and action and proof to
>the contrary is needed, and one day they'll catch on, or you'll have a God
>sent opportunity to go for it and tell them. The same is for Chris I tend
>to think. Picture it this way?
>
>Chris comes knocking on your door:
>
>You: Hi Chris. Hey what brings you by?
>
>Chris: Well mom. I sort of made a mistake. I've been praying about it ever
>since but I got drunk and went home to Nickies place and she got mad at me
>and kicked me out and I was praying about it and thought I could come home
>and sleep here tonight.
>
>You: Oh geez honey. Well I'd like to do that I really would but your
>brother is sleeping in your old room now and we really don't have a good
>place for you to sleep. Sorry. Maybe you ought try Nicki's place again.
>
>Chris: But mom I can just sleep on the couch or something that's all I
>need, I just need a place to crash tonight.
>
>You: Well I'd like to do that but with the  other kids being impressionable
>and all, we really can't do that for several reasons. but Would you  like
>me to get you a phone book perhaps there's a hotel you can stay in tonight.
>
>I know it probably wouldn't be that easy but that is the idea. Stop the
>manipulation possibilities, yet let him know you care.
>
>If you were to answer the door saying
>
>"Chris I'm tired of you manipulating us around here. We are your parents
>not some bum off the street. When are you going to  blah blah blah" *smile*
>
>Again you  wouldn't necessarily say it that way, but it is his perception
>you are working off of and by remaining constant and unwavering yet loving
>as Pat would say. That is only my perception of a choice from 1400 miles
>away or so. You probably aren't going to come out "winning" as you might
>want, to get the point totally across to him, and he might yet get mad, but
>at least he sees consistency, love, and a lack of a successful selling of a
>bill of goods that isn't true. Now, you better warm up your cup of coffee
>after that long winded babble.
>
>The Babbler