Vinnie,

An important note on this Scripture is the word "brother". Giving meaning
of one who is some how "connected" either by relation or similar, as in
fellow Christian. This scripture to me tends to remind us that we are not
meant to be used as door mats for people to take advantage of, and offer a
rebuking upon a trespass, yet if repentance is evident forgiveness ought
be given. Now, as I read this I thought of...

"Our Father, who art in heaven, hallowed be thy name, thy kingdom come,
thy will be done on Earth as it is in heaven, give us our daily bread, and
forgive us our trespasses as we forgive those who trespass against us..."
oops... no mention of repentance here. This caused me to wonder. The
scripture in Luke, is that meant to example an outward show of rebuke, and
a directive to not forgive internally. Or is it a directive to show rebuke
while having yet forgiveness inside but not expressing it until repentence
comes? In other words, if a "brother" sins against us, we show rebuke yet
have forgiveness in side, but if he shows repentance, we then show him the
forgiveness we have? Sort of a balanced scale? After all not forgiving
another holds us a prisoner more often than the offender. Many times the
offender doesn't know they offended, unforgiveness holds us in bondage and
we need to come to forgiving, if for no other reason than to free us. I
did not go to this person I talked of in an earlier post and submit my
forgiveness to them. But, if they were to approach me with repentence, I
indeed would.

Brad

on 11:12 PM 7/24/2005, Vinny Samarco said:
Hi everyone,
Here is a scripture that I have never heard ministered on, either in my
church, or any other.  Let's see what you all think.  From Luke 17-3.
Take Heed to thyselves; if thy brother trespass against thee, rebuke him:
and if he repent, forgive him;
In that scripture, it does seem that there has to be some acknowlegement
of
sin.  Now the Lord has taken away our sin, but it does me no good if I
have
never acknoledged the sin in my life.
For example.  I came to the Lord, or should I really say, the Lord
revealed
himself to me at a point when I was planning the end of my life.   at that
time, I never acknoledged my sin nature, however, about three months
later,
the Lord showed me the dispicableness of my heart, and the terrible things
I
had done, and then I deeply repented and I knew I was forgiven.  So,
bretheren, there is a fine line between knowing in your head that you are
forgiven, and having that ben an actual experiential act that you have
experienced personally.
If you ever read stories about the revivals in the past, you will see the
unmistakable pattern, that without repentance on our part, and the Lord
coming to the person, there is no change.
I think the church has sometimes gotten into a wrong concept when they
talk
about accepting Jesus into our hearts.  God always makes the first move,
for
the word says that no man can come to him except the father draws
him.  Then
when we see the Lord, we must repent and be willing to have God do a
changing work in our hearts as we come to the Lord, asking for
forgiveness.
Anything else becomes an intellectual exercise.  Remember, our encounter
with Jesus needs to be a life exchange--that is, our old life for His new
life.
Vinny
----- Original Message -----
From: "Phil Scovell" <[log in to unmask]>
To: <[log in to unmask]>
Sent: Saturday, July 23, 2005 5:32 PM
Subject: Re: Something I discovered-forgiveness


 > Kathy,
 >
 > I don't think we can forget.  We can, on the other hand, forgive, and
if
 > there is genuine repentence for the lack of forgiveness on our behalf,
the
 > the forgiveness works.  Forgetting is God's job, not ours, because I
don't
 > think we can forget.
 >
 > I have at least two times, in the last couple of years, found myself in
a
 > situation that I needed to forgive.  In one case, it was multipled,
that
is,
 > there were too many places to try and isolate.  I prayed, asking the
Lord
 > what to do, and He said, Forgive them collecti vely and then live as
though
 > they were forgiven.  Never use those situations against them again.  I
 > prayed and did what He said.
 >
 > In the other case, it was a source of definite eructation.  Money was
also
 > involved.  The Lord said, forgive him and never bring it up to him
again.
I
 > did so but in both cases, I haven't forgotten but I did forgive.
 >
 > Phil.
 >