Angel,
Christians are indeed the largest hypocrites around. Why? Because we are
not perfect yet we preach a gospel that points toward striving to that end
always as to do our best in our own strength and God graces us in our
shortcomings. Because we sin ought we then sin purposefully? Paul also
said no to that one as well. Although we preach and encourage others to
live upright and righteous, yet we will not attain it in our own doing, we
ought not give up. Paul also said wretched man that I am, why do I do what
I do not want to do. Did that stop him from preaching? Did he forsake
godly values and principles in light of, "Well I'm not perfect so forgive
me while I do this thing"? Or did he say "Everyone else is sinning, so I
can too"? How about him saying "Well everyone else is sinning so what kind
of witness can I be"? Does this seem like godly attitudes? I think not.
So someone decides to eat too much, or drink caffine, what does that have
to do with living together? Changing focus on the topic does not blur what
would seem right according to God's Word. Caffeine a sin? I think we are
losing focus here. We do not base our relation ship with Christ on what
things appear, but strive towards staying away from evil appearance of
sin, "because", of our relationship. Do we obey the Word because it is
law? Or because we love Christ? Jesus said if you love me obey my
commands. That is pretty simple and straight forward. I'm not certain a
garden variety Catholic priest nor Protestant reverend, pastor or
whatever the title, would, in good conscious, bless an engaged couple to
live together before marriage. And if we are going to interject degrees
of things, I would add there is also a difference between a male and
female who have no original feelings for one another living together as
oppose to two who obviously are headed for a life of marriage and the
gift of sex it holds. Neither one is right in my opinion, that being
platonic relationship living together or engaged folks living together as
we are not to put ourselves purposefully in the path of sin. Seems I saw
a post of yours stating that earlier??
Brad
on 07:48 AM 7/21/2005, Angel said:
I know Christian people who are gluttons as well. Just look at all the
fat
people in the church. Do I judge them? Gluttony is a sin according to
St
Paul. The body is the temple of the holy spirit and I know Christians who
drink soft drinks. If a soft drink can clean the porcelain off a toilet
bole I know I wouldn't want to drink it. I even went to a Christian
church
where there was a soft drink machine in the basement of the church of all
things. The take drugs as well. They are always drinking caffeine. I
say
that to say this just what is a good witness. I really don't think we can
really say what is a good witness for Christ when there are so many
Christian hypocrites around who do not practice what they preach. There
are
a lot of male female room mates who aren't either having sex together or
contemplating marriage. If people are basing their relationship with
Christ
on merely looking at how people around them live and not on their personal
relationship with Christ they will be building their house on shifting
sands
and it will fall. ----- Original Message -----
From: "Brad D" <[log in to unmask]>
To: <[log in to unmask]>
Sent: Thursday, July 21, 2005 7:47 AM
Subject: Re: question, problem, and prayer request.
> Do we have a godly biblical example of living together before marriage?
It
> is always best, prudent and wise to bring our situations back to
scripture
> no matter how it might cut cross grain to us. Their may be situations
> today that may not have existed then, but come to think of it not all
that
> many. In any event giving the appearance of evil is not only a concern
for
> ourselves, in our own conern of what people may think, but also that of
> all Christians. What if you tried witnessing to a non-believer and they
> said "Don't talk to me about being high and mighty or living righteous,
I
> know a christian couple who lived together before marriage, how does
that
> differ from non-Christians today?". You see we bare the responsibility
of
> wearing Christ-like across our chest when we are known as such, and
> appearing as non-believers with a live-in situation doesn't seem to
line
> up biblically or doing as the Word says, to stay away from even the
> appearance of sin, not to mention surposefully put ourselves in
> temptations way no matter how strong we feel our faith is. Psalms 1
says
>
> Ps 1:1-2
> Blessed is the man who does not walk in the counsel of the wicked or
stand
> in the way of sinners
> or sit in the seat of mockers. But his delight is in the law of the
LORD,
> and on his law he meditates day and night.
>
> Notice the progression of "walk", "stand" and "sit" it cannotes a
gradual
> decline if allowed to entertain the ideals of ideals working against
the
> law or God's Word.
>
> I saw a message somewhere about if one gives in to a principle as such
> now, how that might affect futre decisoins and ect. I agree. What would
> make a couple stronger, living together because of life's
circumstances
> or arranging other means until that day when no holds are preventing a
> couple of living as a married one.
>
> Brad
>
>
>
> on 02:47 AM 7/21/2005, Angel said:
> I agree with you. It seems Christians today think the devil is bound
to
> win
> in every situation. I think if you do live together without falling in
to
> sin it will prove to you more than anything else your love for each
other
> is
> not based on mere physical attraction but instead is a heavenly godly
love
> which will last through the years. It will also serve as a testament
of
> your commitment to god's precepts. I will pray that you be constant in
> this
> commitment which I know you will and that your marriage will last as
long
> as
> the firm foundation on which it will be built which is Christ.
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Jenifer Barr" <[log in to unmask]>
> To: <[log in to unmask]>
> Sent: Wednesday, July 20, 2005 9:36 PM
> Subject: Re: question, problem, and prayer request.
>
>
> > what is a vow between god and two people? If we have vowed before
God
> and
> > each other that sex will not occur until marriage, then why is
living
> > together a sin? We are not intimate until then. I understand about
> > temptation but that's when you pray every day that God keeps you
> strong.
> >
> > Our situation is unique and it's not like we haven't prayed about
> it. I
> > guess I'm just hurt because everyone seems to think that just
because
> we're
> > going to be living together the devel is going to win. God is the
only
> one
> > in control. Is this our ideal situation? no. I've been through
too
> much
> > in the past to know what temptation can do to someone... and i... or
> yet
> > we... will not break our vow before god.
> >
> > Jenifer Barr.
> > When the trumpet blows... I'm outta here!
> > AIM: jenibear1998
> > msn
> > [log in to unmask]
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: "Kathy Du Bois" <[log in to unmask]>
> > To: <[log in to unmask]>
> > Sent: Wednesday, July 20, 2005 2:06 PM
> > Subject: Re: question, problem, and prayer request.
> >
> >
> > > Hey Jen,
> > > First of all, I'm sorry that you are dealing with an
> inflexible
> > > pastor. I don't see what difference it makes to him whether the
> cerimony
> > > is big or small, before or after the civil cerimony. I suppose
that
> he
> is
> > > standing on something for theological reasons, but I have no clue
> what
> > > that
> > > would be. It seems to me that you are left with three
> options: switch
> > > pastors, move the wedding up, or leave things as they are and
trust
> God
> > > for a miracle. As a child of God, the one option that you don't
> have,
> is
> > > to move in together. If you begin your marriage by compromising
> your
> > > principles on something that is truly small in the grand scheme
of
> > > things,
> > > how can you be trusted for the bigger ones. Believe me, the one
> thing
> > > that
> > > I am learning about our heavenly Father is that he is extremely
> creative
> > > in
> > > the solution department. We often miss it because we get so stuck
in
> > > thinking that the only solutions available to us are the ones that
we
> can
> > > see and we shut the door on His creativity. This is a test. This
is
> only
> > > a test. The question is, will you trust Him and wait for His
> solution
> and
> > > timing or will you continue to see with earthly eyes only what is
> > > possible. Good luck on your adventure. He is faithful. Your
task
> is
> to
> > > remain patient and at peace! GRIN!
> > > Kathy
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > At 05:17 PM 7/18/2005, you wrote:
> > >>Hi all. As most of you know, i am getting married in november. I
> found
> > >>out
> > >>today from work that they want me to transfer in the beginning of
> august.
> > >>I
> > >>can't tell them i won't transfer then because it is the end of our
> fiscal
> > >>year august 31 and i could forfit my job. Problem is though, that
my
> > >>fiancee and I decided that to save money... if i had to move in
> september
> > >>or
> > >>october we would just live together until the wedding. We both
don't
> > >>really
> > >>like the idea but it's like we have no choice. I don't know what
to
> do.
> > >>I'm so confused... i don't know what is right and wrong. Both my
> fiancee
> > >>and I are born-again Christians, we will in no way have sex before
> > >>marriage
> > >>so if we made/make that pledge to god is living together before
> marriage
> a
> > >>sin? Is it wrong? And what do i do if it is? I know of other
> christian
> > >>couples who have lived together before marriage. I am just so
> scattered
> > >>right now. Please pray for clarity for me? And above all, pray
Gods
> will
> > >>be done.
> > >>I love you all.
> > >>Jenifer Barr.
> > >>When the trumpet blows... I'm outta here!
> > >>AIM: jenibear1998
> > >>msn
> > >>[log in to unmask]
> > >
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