How do we explain Jesus explanation  of if we do not forgive other's sins
against us, he will not forgive  ours? And does forgiveness equate
salvation? Or can we be saved and yet have unforgiven sins to be dealt
with? Curious to the apparent contradiction in scripture then.

Brad

on 06:06 PM 7/28/2005, John Schwery said:
I believe that forgiveness is unconditional in that it does not break
our relationship with God.  Unconfessed sin can break our fellowship
with Him, however.  I believe that if anyone adds anything to
salvation, then, grace is no longer grace, but works have been added,
perverting the gospel.  This doesn't mean that I believe that we can
sin and get away with it, but sin does not break our relationship
with Him.  If it does, then, all of us are toast.  Notice that in
Psalm 51, David did not say to the Lord, restore unto me Thy
salvation, but restore unto me, the Joy of Thy salvation.  When our
fellowship is broken with the Lord, we no longer have that peace that
passes all understanding or the joy of the Lord.

earlier, Vinny Samarco, wrote:
 >Hi Brad,
 >I am glad you brought this point up.  I have heard of too many
ministries
 >who make God out to be this spineless lovy-dovey blob that will let
everyone
 >do anything, and require absolutely nothing from them.  This is truly a
 >perversion of the gospel.  I think most
 >Christians would be totally shocked if they would ever do a complete
study
 >on all the if's and buts in the bible.  They would see that after Jesus
 >reveals himself to us, forgives our sins, etc. there are some
requirements
 >that The Lord requires of all his people.  I'm not talking about
 >self-imposed works, I am talking about biblical requirements.
 >Vinny
 >----- Original Message -----
 >From: "Brad D" <[log in to unmask]>
 >To: <[log in to unmask]>
 >Sent: Tuesday, July 26, 2005 5:50 AM
 >Subject: Conditional forgiveness??
 >
 >
 > > "For if you forgive men their trespasses, your heavenly Father will
also
 > > forgive you. But if you do not forgive men their trespasses, neither
will
 > > your Father forgive your trespasses."-- Matthew 6:14-15
 > >
 > > This Jesus taught his disciples, believers, not those who opposed his
 > > message; purpose;  and existence. These words just after instructing
them
 > > how to pray, and continued after these verses to instruct them on
conduct
 > > and attitudes. Despite what we've come to know as "The Lord's Prayer"
 > > stating "and forgive us our trespass as we forgive those who trespass
 > > against us", Jesus felt that precept needing to be blatantly noted
after
 > > the prayer. We indeed find freedom in forgiving others, but as
with  the
 > > message of the Word, "it is not about us", it in this case is about
giving
 > > grace to others, just as we've received grace unto ourselves. God
knows
 > > that we have enough trouble with that concept, that he holds our
 > > forgiveness randsome. This indeed sounds conditional to me.
 > >
 > > Brad
 > >

John