Well Brad,
I pretty much gave my opinion of getting involved in church in my answer to
Phil.  It's a bet conservative, I guess, but it is comfortable for me.  To
be truthful, I had thought that my question had gotten lost in siber space,
never to return.  You can see from the date that it was actually posted on
January 29, so I've been a bit caught off guard.  The reason that I asked
the question, however, is because I did sence, as you relayed your
involvement with both churches since returning to Wosconsin, that, perhaps,
you were moving a bit too quickly into a leadership position.  I know that
you are gifted in music and your heart is to offer it to the Lord where
ever he leads you.  Your heart attitude was never in question for me, only
the timing.  By saying this, I don't mean to sound like I am judging, or
pointing a finger and saying that you did something wrong, so I hope that
you don't take it that way, but I do think that it is good to step back and
examine doctrines  and practices of a church community before getting
involved, not just for your own sake, but for theirs.  If they become
dependent upon your leadership skills, and it isn't a good fit, you
yourself mey not realize the size of the hole that you will be leaving
behind when you feel led to move on.  I pray that my approach is meant to
cause as little hurt as possible for both sides.
Kathy


At 05:28 PM 2/5/2005, you wrote:
>Kathy,
>
>Searching for politically correct answer sensing a set up lol.
>
>*rubbing hands together before setting them on the keypad*
>
>First let me say, I am not against organized gatherings of believers, nor
>am I against calling it a church. I mean it is a matter of semantics
>anyway. We go to cake walks and I don't see any cakes walking about, but
>they are still delicious. Or here, just the other day, my wife, she says...
>
>"Don't jump all over me!"
>
>I swear!  My feet never left the floor!! Ever heard someone say... "She
>jumped down my throat on that one!" Very difficult imagery here, very
>difficult indeed. Especially  if we take some things literally. So "church"
>to me is the people, who tend to collect in buildings of same name but
>hardly the same thing. I mean buildings are made of cement blocks and
>mortar... well I was called a blockhead the other day so perhaps there is
>some similarities... I don't know. Anyway, the point is church indeed is
>the people and not the place.
>
>The question is, "how long do you wait, when exploring a new church, before
>you get involved?"
>
>Well as Phil noted there are two sides to that proverbial coin, a servant's
>side, and the leadership's side. We too had people wanting to jump in and
>do music after being there only one Sunday... Geesh I hope we didn't sound
>that bad... anyway, yes we don't know who they are, where they came from or
>what their beliefs are on such items. I mean get a low key tongue talker
>who suddenly feels led to speak his piece during praise and worship in the
>midst of a room full of  Baptists, and you got all kinds of shades or red a
>happening. From blushes to heads ready to blow.
>
>As for the servant's side? There are similar considerations, or should I
>say "discernments". For instance here they seem to have a need for praise
>and worship folks, or so I thought in myself... wrong. They could well have
>done without me, but I wanted to involve myself because that is what I like
>to do. I do not care  to just sit back but like to get involved in an area
>I can contribute. And after all, this church seemed to be contemporary, did
>messages on salvation, seemed unstuffy, and seemed to  have a heart for the
>community. And it does. However, the doctrinal differences I have I ignored
>at the time to find a church nearby, one that we could be involved within
>the community this time and not travel. And, seeker friendly? Hey it is
>good to catch those seeking God. The problem is with that there is
>compromise. I won't go into detail but there are issues I just do not feel
>is part of God's word. So to really sum  up this dribble with an answer,
>I'd say "until God leads you to get involved". How do I say this without
>sounding egotistical or positionally Pius, because I'm not. Involved has
>it's own intensities. I mean jumping in to play music is less dependent
>upon than folding service pamphlets. Now now now now now now. now . Stop
>it! Don't take that wrong. I truly believe we all work together and each is
>an intricate part of itno matter what is seen or unseen, but finding
>someone to fold pamphlets is a bit easier than anyone who is willing to
>embarrass themselves in front of hundreds of folks by playing an
>instrument. I mean I could become involved folding pamphlets and drop dead
>and they'd mourn for me and hardly discuss who could take my place,  but if
>one is leaned on to sing, lead others, play an instrument, work up songs,
>work up schedules for singers and musicians, and so forth, the prospects
>become in the form of a smaller ratio. That is why involvement is to be
>followed by God's leading and not override it. Sometimes patience, as we
>discussed need be exercised and not create an Ishmil (spelling???)There are
>times people fill in because there is a need, a hole needing to be plugged,
>and then there are times when things move on to where someone who is called
>to be the real person need come in.
>
>No quote, "church", is perfect, we are human, we have issues, jealousies,
>egos, selfish desires, able to take offense, fears, desires and agendas we
>see which leaders don't, and after all we are right aren't we?? Huh? Sure
>we are, I think lolAren't we? Sure we are. Hmm? . There is no set time, a
>month, six months or the like but there is a time of proving and a time of
>knowing you are where God wants you to be. If not I could put all the names
>of all the churches in a bucket and reach in and pick one. I really like
>the people in this house of worship... see dad, not a church *smile* just
>funnin' ya, and they are all good people, but it has been for some time now
>I've known it was not where God wanted us to be, but we stayed to help
>anyway, and we are still staying until end of May to not thwart any
>momentum currently enjoyed by folks stepping forward to help. I do not feel
>a rush to  attend or be members of another church for the sake of being in
>one, I think there is a time of refocussing, and building up from the
>resources we have here and then set out. I am also of the belief to not
>forsake the assembly, because not only do we learn and grow as a result of
>that assembly but others may as well from what you have to offer. It may
>not seem so, but I am very bothered by the need for the decision which has
>been made, first because I don't wish to lead anyone up the garden path
>regarding our commitment to helping out. I mean I value commitment very
>highly and feel I've put myself and family in a position of not letting my
>yeses be yeses and my no's be no's.  More bothersome is that I put aside
>what God might want and jumped in on my own reasoning. Perhaps it was meant
>to be as such and God is just repositioning. There is no set time to
>decide. I know, you as a pastor's spouse and involved in church as a
>calling will have perhaps a different vantage point. So as Colin Rae, the
>country singer says..."that's my story and I'm sticking to it!" lol. Now
>aren't you glad you asked???
>
>Brad