>"Democracy

>     "Only when all mature and normal citizens are economic *haves* as
well as political *haves*, with some *haves* having more and some
*haves* having less according to their contribution to the economy,
will we have a working approximation to the ideal of a socialist
democracy.

political haves means what?  Can you explain what you think it means?

>     "This news will shock the many who think that the democratic
ideal made its appearance in ancient Greece.  In his funeral oration,
Pericles praises Athens for intituting democracy at a time when, in an
Athenian population of 120,000, only 30,000 were citizens and the rest
were disfranchised women, artisans, and slaves.

Only 25 percent of the population exluded?  That's the way I like it!

>     "There are four main forms of government: tyrannical despotism,
>benevolent despotism, constitutional oligarchy, and constitutional
>democracy.  According to the principles of justice, it can be argued
>that only the last of these is the best form of government, because
>only it embodies all the principles of political justice.

Can the best form of government produce the best form of society?  Well,
they tell you that government is needed, but they won't allow you to try it
for yourself?

Either they really care about your needs and don't want to see you fail, or
they fear that you will be right and your need for them to rule over you
will be no more.

I suspect the latter, that just my nature.

>     "When finally in the twentieth century truly universal suffrage
was established, we saw at last a from of government that is
demonstrably democratic and completely just.  If any injustice remains
for the future to abolish, it is the economic justice of the socialist
ideal."

When universal suffrage was established in the great America, we see a trend
in voters not even bothering to vote.

"the fifteen countries of the European Union (EU) voted together with an
enthusiasm heretofore witnessed mostly in the United States: 51% stayed out.
Five years earlier, the abstention rate ran at 43.2%. This was considered
much too high then; in 1989, the rate had been 42%; in 1994, 39%; in 1979,
37%..." - Serge Halimi

Europe, or great Europe, has experienced the same phenomena, but to Adler
and others, this is because "it is soooo great, people trust that whoever
might be in power, they will do a good job".

Good?
Trust?

Funny enough -- but constitutional democracy has more factors affecting it
and if we ignore those factors and their ability to decide what voters(who
bother) vote, then we are already stuck in the hell hole which Martin
aspires to.

(another song playing while I typed)

Father's expectations,
soul soaked in,
spit and urine
And you gotta make it where?
To a
sanctuary that's a fragile
American hell
an empty dream
A selfish, horrific vision
Passed on like the deadliest of viruses
Curshing you and your naive profession
Have no illusions boy
Vomit all
ideals and serve
Sleep
and wake
and serve
And don't
just think
just wake
and serve it

-- Zack de la Rocha

Milutin

--
Weapons not food, not homes, not shoes
Not need, just feed the war cannibal animal