In a message dated 8/31/98 4:14:05 PM, Tresy wrote:

>Thank you for the condescending lecture. You've already answered the
>question so why pose it to me?

My apologies, it didn't seem like you were aware of the issue.

>This kind of tedious seromonizing is why so many people find Leftists
>repugnant. Leftists assume that if you disagree with them it's because
>you are ignorant or else your moral faculties are defective. I need no
>education from you on the sordid history of SOA.
>

Well, you got me there. That's exactly what I assumed.

>Then there's also the habit of armchair moralizing. I can't help but
>notice that we are all supposed to be big fans of international law, yet
>we aren't so enthusiastic when international law yields results we don't
>like, like Operation Desert Storm or the Iraqi embargo. So where's the
>lofty principle that Leftists live by?

Whose law? Noone consulted me when the laws were made. What I personally
objected to were US policies and events that started long before ODS.

Regarding the embargo, I object to the withholding of food and medicine from
people who have less to say about what their government is up to than even I
do?

Also, I find this label "Leftist" too broad. It includes a lot of different
opinions. I don't walk around calling myself a "leftist." I only speak to
events and issues. This name calling interfers a lot with communication.

>From my years of experience as a
>self-identified leftist, here it is in a nutshell: US Bad. Small
>countries Good (unless they are US client states). Europe Good if they
>side with small countries against US; otherwise Bad. And Chomsky says the
>media have a two-dimensional view of the world.
>

Well, who knows what you were up to all those years. Do you call yourself a
rightist now? You could hardly call Chomsky's writings  two-dimensional. There
seems to be a lot of verifiable facts in them. Have you looked? Do you know
any of the victims of the events he describes? Did you work with those victims
while you were a "leftist"? Or were you sitting in an arm-chair moralizing to
the point where you became so disgusted that you joined the Republican party
or something. Is the anger you direct at that phantom, "the Leftist," anger at
yourself? Is it too much of a stretch to see how the policy of the US
government leads to terrorist attacks against US targets?

Can you think of any democratic countries, perhaps more democratic than the
US, that don't have their embassies exploded? Ever wonder why?


>In the original article that I took issue with, Chomsky said the only
>legitimate course of action was prosecuting the terrorists as criminals.

Well....

>....and that
>meanwhile there's every reason to assume that many more people will die
>from subsequent bombings and worse.

This is exactly what I thought, the very first thought, when I heard about the
US bombing Afganistan. What was the reaction of the followers Bin Laden or his
followers? You think they said, "Oh lets forget the US now. They're too
scary." I don't think they said that.


>My comment was that that was exceedingly naive given that Afghanistan is
>never going to give up bin Laden or his followers voluntarily, ....

How do you know that? How have Clinton's actions made the world safer for me
and you? What would make the world safer for me and you?


>For that rather unremarkable
>observation I was showered with dim-witted sarcasm, and accusations of
>double standards.

he he,

>No one has offered a more effective policy involving UN action.

No one with any missiles asked me. They just went ahead and shot them
missiles.




















>

>But that's not surprising:

Not the least bit surprizing.

>it's so much easier to trot out the
>knee-jerk anti-US rhetoric than to

Well, when you are hit on the knee.....

>actually formulate an alternative
>policy and defend it in the real world.

So you like the bombing, right? That's the solution you like right? I don't
like it, and noone even asked me? That's what I object to. People exploding
bombs without asking me about it. How much money does the US  government spend
promoting inter-cultural exchange, creating and promoting ways of living that
don't result in gross inequality, ooops, you don't need the lectures. You got
your cruise missiles?

Perhaps the meek shall inherit the earth some day. I'd love to see it. This is
hell, Tresy. Every act of violence makes it worse, not better.

John Korber