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Listmembers,
Thank you for your kind responses to my query. The answers are
summarized and paraphrased below, then followed by my comments.
- From owner of '96 Zojirushi (AKA "ZO"): Sender indicated both gf and
non gf bread made on machine which has a "chronic" layer of baked
material in numerous small crevices and rivet areas. He has had some
reactions after eating gf bread made in the machine, is not certain that
it is the traces of non gf bread product causing them, thinking it might
be other factors such as ingredients, such as yeast. He is contacting
Zojirushi to inquire about ordering another baking pan.
- Has used a machine (type unidentified) for last 4-5 years alternating
gf and non gf w/ no ill effects. Advises taking normal precautions of a
sensible cleaning regimen then one shouldn't expect to have any
problems. A general feeling was also expressed that taking a common
sense approach to managing our condition in general would see us through
without too many difficulties.
- Some are more sensitive than others. If one is not a member of the
group of " super sensitive people", one would be okay (in using the
same machine).
- It is conceivable that the machine could be used w/o problems, but
since I employ a separate toaster I am probably sensitive enough to be
justified in being nervous about this. My wife should consider a gf
household and eat wheat outside.
- "Let her learn to enjoy GF bread" (my personal favorite)
- Making gf bread for 3 years using a Welbuilt bought cheaply at
Wal-Mart. It does a good job and would be a wise choice for me to
purchase for my wife to use. Has never made non gf bread in his machine
for fear of reaction.
- Has a Zo, very happy with it, always has been nervous about
alternating gf and non gf, and doubts whether cleaning can be that
thorough based on observation of condition of bread pan after use.
Machine is therefore dedicated to gf bread.
- Simplest and safest way to prevent problems is to have a separate pan
and mixing blade for gf and non gf loaves.
- Uses same machine for both types, washes well in hot soapy water. Only
problem is with the taste of the gf bread, as recipient of same is
unfavorably impressed with flavor.
- Has a ZO, and used it when making wheat bread, but now do gf by hand
because of poor results with zo in making gf bread, which was too moist.
Does non gf in machine now and gf by hand exclusively to avoid cross
contamination. Recommends buying extra pan and paddle.
- Congratulations on my satisfaction with gf bread after 6 months, has
been experimenting for two years and still evidently unsatisfied. Says
to buy another bread machine for my wife.
- Owner of ZO, purchased as was mine, from the Gluten Free Pantry, has
made gf and non gf successfully. Soaks pan and related parts before
washing, and uses bottle brush to clean small areas.. Has used cake
cycle to make spicy fruit loaf, and uses Bette Hagman's recipe for
bread, finds" gum" constipating.
- If clean machine thoroughly, I should be fine.
- Go to ZO dealer and get another pan, then after non gf bread is made,
carefully clean out the inside of the bread machine. Indicated that it
is difficult to clean around the opening and the rivets. Recommends
another bread machine if usage for non-gf will be high. Owns a second
flour mill for gf items and is appreciative of lack of worry and
inconvenience.
- Uses two pans, cleans machine thoroughly, never had reaction.
- Buy separate machine, too hard to clean thoroughly, bread machines
are cheap now and regular bread does not require as powerful a machine.
- Wouldn't use same machine for gf and non gf, but if you must, get
another pan and paddle.
- If you clean it thoroughly, you shouldn't have any trouble.
By my count, there were 6 for a new machine, 6 said cleaning would be
satisfactory, and 4 went with the new pan. My first reaction, as it
were, was to get a new pan (this is before I read any of these
responses), because I found that there was little or no residue in the
rest of the machine, so I felt that the risk of contamination would be
small. I also realized that my counter space, what with extra toasters
and the like, was already diminishing to a potentially contentious
point. However, I contacted Zojirushi and found out that a new pan
($90), paddles ($12 apiece) plus tax and shipping was going to cost me
about $150, when I bought the original entire machine for $199 plus
shipping from the Gluten Free Pantry. It's like ordering a hammer from
the US Government!
After baking bread in this machine and seeing the residue, I feel that
could, if very careful, could get 99% of the gluten out if I baked some
non-gf bread. But, I don't like the idea of that 1% at all. Besides, as
careful as I have to be about my food, and since I have a choice in the
matter, why not have this small island of safety, where I am certain
that there is no possibility of contamination (save what I might put in
by accident).
My decision is to get my wife a new machine for Christmas. Although I
appreciate the hard-core opinions about gf households, I do not share
them. I enjoyed everything about wheat, and although I consider the gf
diet a very healthy one, no one can deny that it is a royal pain in the
ass, and I wouldn't expect anyone to volunteer for the gf army, nor
would I conscript them.
Regarding the taste of gf bread, the only problem I can see is that it
doesn't have wheat! Other than that it is just fine. My point is, that
you cannot and will not replace it. Gf bread is not the same animal, I
have finally figured that out, and all efforts to recreate it using
other ingredients are bound to fail. My view is that I simply need to
re-learn cooking using the materials available, and try, although it is
very hard, not to have expectations about the taste based on my
experience with wheat. I am reminded of a vegetarian restaurant I went
to where most of the menu contained dishes designed to remind you of
meat!
Several wanted to know what recipes I have used. The first bread I made
was from sample of the sandwich bread mix, which I received from the
Gluten Free Pantry, where I ordered the bread machine. They also sent
along recommended settings, which were quite different from the
automatic ones preset into the machine. The first loaf rose well, was
much moister than the dry bread from the store, and was excellent for
sandwiches and toast. I then made a loaf with the yeast bread recipe
from Bette Hagman's second book, More from the Gluten Free Gourmet. This
was also very good, a little firmer, and not as moist, but with a good
flavor.
I bought the machine just before Thanksgiving, and because we were going
out of town, made four loaves to take with us. I also, obsessively, took
an ice chest full of every type of flour I had, just in case. My family
was intrigued by Celiac, and interested in how I coped. My mother
presented me with some " Veggie Fries" she purchased from a health food
store. I swear, I actually put one in my mouth, then looked at the
label, and sure enough, wheat flour was listed, big as life. Other than
that all went well, and (the reason for this digression) my family
proceeded to eat all of the bread I had made!
I have most recently made some bread using Hagman's Bean Flour mixture
(the recipe is for a sesame bread from her third book , but I made it
without the sesame seeds) using the only bean flour I could find easily,
which is garbanzo bean flour from Bob's Red Mill. This company has made
quite a successful invasion of the general grocery store market here. I
have used several of their products with no difficulty, although they
are too expensive. I plan to try one with their black bean flour at some
point. The results of the above were a little disappointing I must say,
but definitely edible. I think that the garbanzo flour itself is the
main culprit, so I am going to try some other beans, but it was worth a
shot!
All of this flour is much too expensive. I think I am averaging about
$5.00 per loaf. Sometime I think we as Celiacs, should set out to form a
large co-op, where we could get reliably gluten free staples in bulk.
But I don't know if the savings would be enough to justify the effort.
What do you think?
I cannot tell you, the listmembers, how much I value your advice and
simple presence in this machine of mine. When I first was diagnosed, I
was overwhelmed with data from the various sources, such as the internet
and the local and national societies. But nothing can take the place of
experience in living without wheat and the daily interpretation of all
that data and its translation into practical use. Thank you all very
much for your help. I hope to be able to return your kindness in the
future.
Gf in Houston
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