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***
From Stewart:
       My wife is a Registered Nurse with Celiac disease and i am a Physician.
While we are not Chemical Engineers, we both feel the recent post regarding
vinegar and the distillation process makes very good scientific sense.
It is refreshing to see people use science and not just " taken for granted
beliefs" when considering this mysterious and poorly understood disease
syndrome. We very much appreciate the engineer in Montanas' comments!!

*** From Connie: I'm extremely affected by the smallest amount of gluten
but I've never had a reaction to quinoa, amarath, or buckwheat. I do not
use distilled vinegar though.

***
The thing I  find especially interesting about the alcohol controversy is that
rye, bourbon, etc.are only 30-40% alcohol.  We worry about the alcohol being
safe when it fact we should also be concerned with the other 60-70 % of what's
in the bottle.  If that was just distilled water, everything would taste &
look like vodka & we wouldn't want to drink the other stuff...Definitely not
the case.

I have found that as I have eliminated more & more gluten over the years
(though better education about cross contamination), my tolerance for gluten
has decrease.  I now avoid most products w/ vinegar since they do bother me
now--started about 10 years on the diet.  That little bit of gluten in
products like that doesn't give me digestive symptoms, it just scrambles my
brain to produce "fuzzy thinking" & a headache--just like a hangover.  If I
intentionally wanted to feel like that, it would be more fun just to have a
few drinks--which would bring up back to the alcohol question.
Bev in Milwaukee

***
It has taken me quite some time to get to the point where I'm completely
gluten free.  When I was (so I thought) gluten free but still having
reactions, I couldn't figure out why.  At that point, I finally traced my
problems to vinegar.  I had been eating mayo--vinegar.  I had some
salsa--vinegar.  I had also used some vanilla which had alcohol--again, the
distillation process.  I was quite offended at the claim that the distillation
process wasn't affecting me and that I must have some vinegar allergy.  Like
you, I have no trouble with cider or other vinegars.  And, the fact that I
have had trouble with alcohol-containing vanilla just confirms to me the fact
that it's indeed the distillation process that should be considered a carrier
of the forbidden grains.

I do recall the original poster saying that in his case, he did not present
with the typical GI symptoms.  Had he experienced what I go through every time
I ingest the slightest amount of gluten, he might not have been so quick to
brush off the vinegar reaction!!

This is a supportive list.  However, I too felt completely invalidated when I
read the original vinegar post telling me that my reactions were "all in my
head".  It has taken me 27 years of tests and MDs telling me that same thing
only to figure out (to THEIR surprise) that there really IS something "wrong"
with me!
Kathy in Indiana

***
I know that there has been a lot of controversy
considering alcohol, vinegar, and some flours.  I take the position that
maybe someone can scientifically verify that they do not have gluten in
them, but I would certainly think that there must be a reason that the CSA
says that they don't recommend them for people with CD.  I do agree that it
should be stated if they do not contain gluten, that it should be specified
that they do not contain gluten but some people with CD may have problems
with them.  I with that someone would get this cleared up.
 Karen From Whitesboro,

*** I've decided to be a little extra careful and generally I bring my
own salad dressing to restaurants so I don't have to take chances. I
have to admit that on occasion, I will eat a salad if there is already
dressing on it but I really don't like doing it.

It sounds like we need more research done on a lot of our foods as far as what
really causes villi damage as much of the diet is based on first hand
reactions and not scientific reactions.
Barb from NE Ohio

***
The only thing I can say conclusively is that many distilled white vinegars
cause problems for me.  Not all,  But many.    Not only do they affect my
GI tract, but they also make a itchy, papular, then oozy rash on my sacral
spine area erupt.  It is easy to blame the GI effects on other
possibilities.  However, to my knowledge, nothing except gluten can cause a
DH rash to erupt.  Therefore, *I* choose to avoid it because it *appears*
as if many distilled grain vinegars and alcohols contain gluten.

Even saying this, there will be people who doubt me and will make all
kinds of suppositions because they choose to believe otherwise.  However,
this is MY truth, *I* know it, and anyone can argue with me until they are
blue in the face, and it won't change my reality, nor my interpretation of
it.  To me, distilled vinegars can and do contain gluten.
Joanne D

***
 I'm still fairly new to the diagnosis of celiac disease and
also to the list: the vinegar discussion has been annoyingly difficult to
follow, and it has felt as though some of the postings have been the same kind
of scoffing at symptoms that I, and probably most of us, have received on our
way to finally being diagnosed.
Jacqueline in Encinitas, CA

Whew!!!  There were other messages, but I tried to be fair and represent
every possible point of view in this summary.

There were MANY messages that said that all the celiac groups should get
together and have a scientifically agreed upon list of products that are
KNOWN and PROVEN  BY SCIENCE to contain gluten/gliadin, and another list
of things that seem to cause reactions in many celiacs that have not been
proven to contain gluten, yet cause similar symptoms.  Perhaps there is a
way that people on this list who belong to the various organizations can
come up with unified lists.  It seems obvious that it would be helpful to
all concerned and would eliminate a lot of confusion.  Gayle Kennedy
ITHACA, NY