<<Disclaimer: Verify this information before applying it to your situation.>>

Among other things, V. Jones recently wrote in a post "summary":

> As far as checking with every manufacturer myself, sure, I could do
> that - we all could.  A few natural products don't have a web page
> or phone number on the containers (or on the Internet), and if you work
> full-time, you won't be calling these companies up during business
> hours.
>
> If there is no Web page or you don't have time or a fax machine, you
> would need to write them and wait weeks for a reply.
>
> So to those of us who condemn our asking questions or answer with
> sarcastic replies, please unsubscribe and take your devil's advocate
> attitudes elsewhere....or go eat all the gluten you please.
>
> To the rest of you, thank you.  Your help is appreciated.  I can't take
> chances.

This seems a good lead in to my own summary of a recent post.  First,  this
was less a "summary" than a diatribe.  A summary would have been, "I
understand "Cascade" is safe, as well as "Palmolive." There was
significantly more (or less, depending on your point of view) in V. Jone's
summary than a list of safe dishwashing detergents.

Second, I don't quite agree that the list exists to "save each other time
and trouble," but rather to provide support, share resources, experiences
(to applicable degrees) and general information.  I certainly don't expect
others to do my footwork (i.e.  gluten-free shopping lists and the like) for
me.

And third, quite frankly, I'm surprised the list owners allowed the rather
inflammatory comments from V. Jones when "flaming" isn't permitted. Although
this was admittedly borderline, mentioning people's names and email
addresses in a derogatory manner  doesn't seem quite proper either.  The
time V. Jones took to denigrate and rage against those who answered
privately (and however impolitely -- it *was* a private issue nonetheless
until taken public) could have been spent contacting those manufacturers she
said she didn't have time to contact. If you really can't "take chances,"
then it would seem that waiting a few weeks to get the proper reply from a
manufacturer would be the safest and most reliable action to take.

That said, here is a summary of the more than two dozen, overwhelmingly in
agreement responses I got to my post regarding the most appropriate way to
inquire about products. Or, perhaps stated more accurately -- "Is the list
the right place to inquire about the GF status of foods and restaurants, as
opposed to contacting the manufacturer, referring to buying guides or simply
inquiring about other's experiences with products and restaurants?"

Here's what I got:

*Nearly all those who replied to my post felt that posting GF queries to the
list bogged it down a bit, especially when the information is available
elsewhere and often already in the list archive. Nearly everyone, though, is
very understanding of why such posts are made and rather resigned to them.
And everyone seems understanding of posting "emergency questions" or asking
if anyone might have clarification on "doubtful GF reports." Said another
member," There are also newbies who don't know of any other source of
information, and people who have not yet had an opportunity or need to even
think about a particular product yet.  It is our duty as experienced Celiacs
to help them begin to cope and find the sources of information they need
(but only until they learn to cope).  We were once in their shoes." On the
other hand, the same member pointed out,"I think that a targeted reply to
specific individuals who ask such questions, rather than to the list, is a
more appropriate approach.  It is not fair to list members when any specific
individual takes the lazy way out and has the list members do his work. "

*Others said it was very frustrating when they contacted manufacturers and
didn't get replies or had to wait weeks for replies. Then they found
contacting the group helpful, especially if others had received replies from
the same companies in the past and had the information they were seeking.
On the other hand, some of the same people noted that then you might be
getting out-of-date information, or relying on the experience of others (the
"I don't react to it" philosophy), which may not be safe.  As one member
pointed out ," Heck, if I have to eat it, I'm going to go to the source! Who
needs guess work?"

*One member said,"Sometimes if I can't find the manufacturers number, etc.
I'll ask that question and I do appreciate those who post they contacted a
company and attach their reply (saves me the step since we are suppose to
check on products every 6-12 months).  But posters that reply only from
their own experience (the "I don't react to it" crowd) I think are
irresponsible at best."

*Several people said it was a "time" issue, and that they didn't have the
time to write manufacturers (although it would seem to take an equal amount
of time -- or possibly more time -- to post the question to the list and
sort through the replies, hopefully verify them and then post a summary!) Or
as another member speculated, "I guess some people don't enjoy the challenge
of looking for a needle in a haystack or the reward of finding it!"

*A few people said the GF query posts would be more helpful if those making
them posted the results of their query only (I imagine the implication here
is "without a lot of speculation on the items")

*Many, many said "Use the archives." One person noted the frequency of
communion and Passover questions and "after many weeks of seeing these
bounce around along comes another asking the most basic question that has
already been answered." Obviously a lot of these questions come from new
people who haven't seen them asked before, but that leads to the suggestion
that perhaps the listowners should include a link to the archives at the
bottom of each post, an observation someone else made just today: "Celiac
list archives - very easy to search. goes back several years but I recommend
going back no farther than maybe 2 or less:
http://maelstrom.stjohns.edu/archives/celiac.html"   Sometimes (and
sometimes only -- I don't know why) there's a link at the bottom of the
posts to "Visit the Celiac Web Page at www.enabling.org/ia/celiac/index.html
" and you can get to the archives from there. But the St. Johns link above
takes you directly to the archives and would probably be more helpful,
especially with a short note beside it saying something like "Before asking
a question, check the archives and see if it's already been answered."

*Many others (myself included) feel the best source for the GF status of
products is the manufacturer and approved buying guides. Among the suggested
listing guides are (and I'm pulling these directly from the Celiac Support
Page for everyone's information):

CSA/USA Products and Drug Information Guides - CSA Cooperative Gluten-Free
Commercial Products Listing - This pamphlet lists gluten-free baby foods,
baking products, beans, beverages, breads and crackers, candies and gum,
cereals, cheeses, condiments, desserts, entrees and main dishes, fats and
oils, flours, starches and baking mixes, fruits, health and beauty aids, ice
creams and frozen deserts, malt, malt extracts and malt flavorings, meats,
poultry and seafood, milk, milk replacements and yogurt, nuts and seeds,
pasta, pharmaceuticals, rice, salad dressings, sauces and sauce mixes,
snacks, soups and broths, spices, herbs and seasonings, vegetables,
vinegars. It also has phone numbers of suppliers of GF commercial foods,
companies that say they have NO GF products, and company-specific ingredient
information. In the back are two samples of letters to use when writing
companies for gf information. The user should still read those labels and
check with the companies to see if things have changed. To order: send $8 to
CSA/USA: Celiac Spue Association/United States of America, Inc., P. O. Box
31700, Omaha, NE 68131-0700, Phone 402/558-0600. E-mail Janet Rinehart at:
[log in to unmask]

TCCSSG - Gluten-Free Shopping Guides
The TCCSSG gluten-free shopping guide is published every Fall. The guide is
very reliable and comprehensive. It is over 70 pages (approximately 4500 GF
entries!) that also include 800 numbers and listing of specialty food GF
companies. The cost is $10 each, including postage. It is well worth it! The
address to mail requests to is: TCCSSG Shopping Guide, 34638 Beechwood,
Farmington Hills, MI 48335. E-mail: [log in to unmask], or  Jim Lyles at:
[log in to unmask]

The Clan Thompson Celiac Newsletter
Provides information about food labeling, support group activities, celiac
news from around the world, research updates, Ask the Doctor, recipes,
personal experiences of subscribers and more. The newsletter is published
once a month by email. Subscriptions are free. Just send an e-mail to
[log in to unmask] with the word SUBSCRIBE in the subject field.

Stokes Pharmacy - Celiac Sprue, A Guide Through the Medicine Cabinet
This book was developed to give you the tools you need to choose medications
you need, to choose medications and vitamins that meet your special
requirements. It is our hope that this publication will make your life a
little easier. This 8.5 X 11 spiral bound book has specific drug names and
gluten free & lactose status, as well as over the counter drugs, vitamins,
and directories of manufacturers. Stokes Pharmacy 639 Stokes Road Medford,
NJ 08055 phone: (800) 754-5222 fax: (800) 440-5899 e-mail:
[log in to unmask] Internet: http://www.stokesrx.com/. The cost is
$19.00 plus $3.00 shipping and handling. (New Jersey residents need to add
6% sales tax.) .

Rabbi Gershon Bess - A Passover Guide to Cosmetics and Medications
Rabbi Gershon Bess, researcher/author of the annual A Passover Guide to
Cosmetics and Medications published by Kollel - Los Angeles. During
Passover, some people of the Jewish faith refrain from owning and using
items which are "chometz", that is, which contain wheat, barley, rye, oats,
or spelt. Rabbi Bess' annual research is very valuable to celiacs who wish
to avoid gluten in their medications and toiletries For those who wish to be
in the mailing list for the annual guide, write to: Kollel - Los Angeles,
7466 Beverly Blvd. #204, Los Angeles 90036. A donation is suggested. Tel:
(213) 933-7193. The guide is revised in early March.

Abigail Newman's list - very comprehensive layout. fairly up to date.  she
lists everything from medicine to potato chips and everything in between:
http://www.geocities.com/HotSprings/Spa/4003/gf-index.html

*And these links (offered from my own resource files) provide contact
information for many, many manufacturers:

www.foodprocessing.com has hundreds of links to food manufacturers for
contact information.

Penny's Pages, at www.penny.ca/Links.htm

The GlutenFree Info Web, at www.glutenfreeinfo.com/Diet/glutenfreeinfo.htm
has a huge list of companies with contact information.

So that's the long and the short of it (mostly the long!).  I'm sure someone
will ask again about something we've just discussed soon, but if they do, we
can just forward this summary to them!

In good health,

Terri