historically  it has worked quite well. i can see
more people who it has worked with than those it has
not worked with. lack of it in the past 30-40 years 
has brought on more violence than ever before. 
  i will not sit by and have average parents who swat
an unruly child on the bottom as sex abusers and
brutalizers. i'll point up the deceptive tactic every
time i see it used.
  you are probably right in that it does not further
"your" goals. but then again i and many other parents
have not made it your responsibility to raise our
children. nor do we want the role taken by the
government. 
  actually finding anything other than links (many
just ads) is pretty hard on what came up when i
clicked nospank.org
. i am happy that you are going to give me permission
to disagree. 

--- Linda Walker <[log in to unmask]> wrote:

> Ken we have agreed to disagree before and I am not
> surprised you do 
> not agree. I would like to see laws passed making it
> a crime to 
> punish children in this manner. I am against
> corporal punishment. It 
> does not work. It does not further the goals I have
> for society.  I 
> actually threw it out as a trial balloon to see what
> you guys 
> thought. I didn't say ALL, I said most. If I said
> all I misstate I am 
> almost always careful to use qualifying words
> especially when 
> throwing out controversial subjects. I agree with
> Alice Miller and 
> nospank.org if you do not that is fine.
> 
> At 01:41 PM 11/8/2007, you wrote:
> >i saw different tatics that i have saw before.
> >
> >1st: all civilize nations have aggreed with your
> >position. implication nations and people who do not
> >are "uncivilized." intimidation tactic since no one
> >wants to be seen as "uncivilized."
> >
> >2. we bring up spanking or corprell punishment and
> >themn we start siting studies on sexual abuse and
> on
> >"brutalizing children.
> >  no one would want to support sexually abusing
> >children or bruatalizing children. impress some,
> >intimidate the rest.
> >
> >but here comes someone with brass enough to say
> >studies on sexual abuse are not relavant to average
> >parents spanking a average kid nor a average school
> >teacher "applying the board of education to the
> seat
> >of learning" nor studies of brualizing children
> being
> >relavant to the average spanking or paddling.  it
> >sorta neutralize the tactics.
> >
> >how should it be read linda?
> >
> >
> >--- Linda Walker <[log in to unmask]> wrote:
> >
> > > It does not sound like you read it.
> > >
> > > At 07:06 PM 11/7/2007, you wrote:
> > > >spanking and sexual abuse are not =. spanking
> and
> > > >brutalizing are not =. so your studies quoting
> is
> > > >apples to oranges. sorry it don't sell here.
> > > >
> > > >--- Linda Walker <[log in to unmask]> wrote:
> > > >
> > > > > That was a good school experience and mine
> was
> > > > > similar altho it was
> > > > > in  a city and altho my family did not have
> much
> > > > > money most of the
> > > > > kids were from well heeled families. I think
> > > because
> > > > > of my age (62)
> > > > > there were no discipline problems either. We
> > > were
> > > > > taught and we
> > > > > learned. To my knowledge no one was ever
> spanked
> > > or
> > > > > paddled.
> > > > > Studies show paddling is bad for a child's
> self
> > > > > esteem and I agree
> > > > > with www.nospank.org  that passing laws
> against
> > > it
> > > > > are best. Most
> > > > > civilized countries have done so, the US has
> > > not. A
> > > > > highlight of my
> > > > > life was giving an address in NY that Alice
> > > Miller
> > > > > was supposed to
> > > > > give but she could not make it in from
> > > Switzerland.
> > > > > She is considered
> > > > > the worlds foremost child psychologist, one
> of
> > > the
> > > > > first to deal with
> > > > > children's issues.
> > > > > I've worked cases in states where spanking
> is
> > > > > allowed and they killed
> > > > > a kid years ago, and covered it up, others
> were
> > > > > brutally beaten.
> > > > > Studies also show  that the brain develops
> > > > > differently when kids are
> > > > > brutalized at home or in school or sexually
> > > abused.
> > > > > Physical and
> > > > > sexual violence towards children often goes
> hand
> > > in
> > > > > hand. So if you
> > > > > teach corporal punishment is wrong it sets a
> > > > > different standard, a
> > > > > humane and compassionate one.
> > > > > And check out Moses Lake WA if you think
> rural
> > > kids
> > > > > live good
> > > > > citizenship cause I've worked cases where
> the
> > > murder
> > > > > rate (kid on kid
> > > > > and adult to kid) in rural areas is off the
> > > charts.
> > > > > Many murders in
> > > > > farm areas are covered up as farm accidents
> or
> > > > > simply accepted by
> > > > > authorities as accidents when they are not.
> We
> > > are
> > > > > documenting these
> > > > > in polygamy for instance. I guarantee you a
> lot
> > > of
> > > > > those East
> > > > > European and Appalachian kids you went to
> school
> > > > > with were being
> > > > > brutalized at home. it is simply a well
> covered
> > > up
> > > > > phenomenon.
> > > > >
> > > > > At 02:52 AM 11/2/2007, you wrote:
> > > > > >I would be willing to put MY next paycheck
> on a
> > > bet
> > > > > that Linda
> > > > > >McCauley's district probably received fewer
> > > dollars
> > > > > pe
> > > > >
> > > > > -----------------------
> > > > >
> > > > > To change your mail settings or leave the
> > > C-PALSY
> > > > > list, go here:
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > >
> >
>
>http://listserv.icors.org/SCRIPTS/WA-ICORS.EXE?SUBED1=c-palsy
> > > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > >
> >__________________________________________________
> > > >Do You Yahoo!?
> > > >Tired of spam?  Yahoo! Mail has the best spam
> > > protection around
> > > >http://mail.yahoo.com
> > > >
> > > >-----------------------
> > > >
> > > >To change your mail settings or leave the
> C-PALSY
> > > list, go here:
> > > >
> > >
> >
>
>http://listserv.icors.org/SCRIPTS/WA-ICORS.EXE?SUBED1=c-palsy
> > >
> > > -----------------------
> > >
> > > To change your mail settings or leave the
> C-PALSY
> > > list, go here:
> > >
> > >
>
>http://listserv.icors.org/SCRIPTS/WA-ICORS.EXE?SUBED1=c-palsy
> > >
> >
> >
> >__________________________________________________
> >Do You Yahoo!?
> >Tired of spam?  Yahoo! Mail has the best spam
> protection around
> >http://mail.yahoo.com
> >
> 
=== message truncated ===


__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Tired of spam?  Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around 
http://mail.yahoo.com 

-----------------------

To change your mail settings or leave the C-PALSY list, go here:

http://listserv.icors.org/SCRIPTS/WA-ICORS.EXE?SUBED1=c-palsy