the abuse I suffered came not from pt or st or ot, but from my own mother.
Thanks,
Tamar
~~~~~~~~
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Retired Commissioner, Oakland, MCPD
________________________________
From: Robert Segalman Ph.D <[log in to unmask]>
To: [log in to unmask]
Sent: Sat, February 20, 2010 4:14:49 PM
Subject: Abuse
Nalin,
I assume that the abuse is wide and is simply not brought to people's attention because of (A) the victims have communication difficulties, (B) it is not recognized as abuse because it can be very subtle and the perpetrators do not realize that they are being abusive.
Tamar,
You are correct that the abuse would be difficult to prosecute as a class action suit because so many jurisdictions are involved. We just need to wait and collect complaints until we get enough of them from one jurisdiction to proceed with a class action suit. Another approach would be to find and prosecute a single case and hope that prosecutors in other jurisdictions will follow suit.
The goal of efforts in this situation might be more productively focused on education rather than prosecution. I often see a bossiness and a lack of respect for patients by PTs. My strongest memories of abuse were as a small child in the 1940's. The only known methods of treating tight CP muscles was a painful stretching which in my case occurred three times a week for an hour from the age of 3 until age 18. My other experience in which I perceived abuse was several times a week in my teens from unintended physical contact with women physical therapists at a time when I was also experiencing the typical very active teenage glands. Such physical contact exacerbated the exclusion and social isolation that I felt as the only person with a disability in high school. Some of what I experienced could be avoided by assigning male PTs to high school boys. It would be good if we could educate the professionals to adopt such assignment as part of the code of
ethics.
Bob Segalman, Ph. D.
Date: Fri, 19 Feb 2010 11:15:01 +0530
From: Nalin Kumar <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Hi from India
Hi Robert!
Good Morning !!!
Let me introduce you. I am Nalin Kumar a Physical Therapist from India.I have been working with children and adults with special needs for past 3years. I hope we both will learn togther from each other.
Is it a global abuse that you are looking into? or just in US?
It would be nice to know if I may know about you all too.More details about me you can see me on my blog
www.physionalin.blogspot.com
Thanks
Nalin
Date: Fri, 19 Feb 2010 00:23:17 -0800
From: Tamar Raine <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: abuses?
Robert, how can there be a class action lawsuit if the pt, st, ot were in different locations, working at different schools, clinics, hospitals?
Thanks,
Tamar
~~~~~~~~
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Retired Commissioner, Oakland, MCPD
Date: Fri, 19 Feb 2010 06:41:18 -0500
From: Kathleen Salkin <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: abuses?
Mag,
The success of winning a class action suit depends on the preponderance of
cases and how much documentation each litigant can provide towards the
case. It's not like a criminal case which is focused on one person or one
crime and the chances of winning lies in the quality of the evidence.
So there is no geographic limitation for a class action suit, except, I
believe, that it be within the US. I'm not familiar with the international
law aspect of such a legal action, unless one were to attempt to file a
violation of human rights with the UN's World Court at The Hague. I'm sure a
lawyer can answer that question much much better than I.
Personally speaking the only abuse I got at the hands of a PT was a violent
shaking of my arm to "loosen" it up and as I complained about it, I was
assigned to another PT even though this left me with a lingering fear of
:PTs. It all happened 50 years ago so any eyewitnesses are long gone.
Kat
Date: Fri, 19 Feb 2010 09:01:24 -0500
From: "Michael H. Collis" <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: abuses?
That, too, but the real issue is the statute of limitations. Most of the
therapists back then were in their thirties. They are now in their 80's.
Date: Fri, 19 Feb 2010 09:01:24 -0500
From: "Michael H. Collis" <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: Abuse?
Robert, what about the statute of limitations?
Date: Fri, 19 Feb 2010 09:10:01 -0500
From: Kathleen Salkin <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: abuses?
Yeah if a defendant is in their 80s, how are they giong to be able to afford
to pay damages awarded? I think this would be much more successful with
more recent cases.
Kat
On Fri, Feb 19, 2010 at 9:01 AM, Michael H. Collis <[log in to unmask]> wrote:
> That, too, but the real issue is the statute of limitations. Most of the
> therapists back then were in their thirties. They are now in their 80's.
>
Date: Fri, 19 Feb 2010 11:52:30 -0500
From: Kathleen Salkin <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: Hi from India
KJP,
1) Have you filed a complaint with the housing office?
2) Have you filed a complaint with your local social services?
3) Have you filed a complaint wth the police department? If what you say is
true, that's grounds for assualt and battery. Since you are of legal age,
you should be able to do this. If you are under guardianship, your guardian
should do it for you.
Kat
Date: Fri, 19 Feb 2010 11:23:09 -0600
From: Kathy Pink <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: Hi from India
I filed it with the home, and my caseworker. I didn't file with the police. She is better now.
Kathy Jo Pink
E-mail addresses: [log in to unmask] , [log in to unmask], and [log in to unmask]
MSN/HotMail IM: [log in to unmask]
Pogo Nickname : perkypinkypink
Pretty sure that in order to have a class action you'd have to have a
single person or institution responsible for the injury / problem...
--
Peter Hunsberger
Date: Fri, 19 Feb 2010 12:26:52 -0600
From: Peter Hunsberger <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: abuses?
On Fri, Feb 19, 2010 at 5:41 AM, Kathleen Salkin <[log in to unmask]> wrote:
> Mag,
>
> The success of winning a class action suit depends on the preponderance of
> cases and how much documentation each litigant can provide towards the
> case. It's not like a criminal case which is focused on one person or one
> crime and the chances of winning lies in the quality of the evidence.
>
So who's going to be expected to pay the damages in such a suit? I
don't see how you could claim joint culpability unless you can prove
some kind of collusion?
--
Peter Hunsberger
Date: Fri, 19 Feb 2010 10:35:21 -0800
From: Tamar Raine <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: abuses?
So, what does a class action suit do at this point? it's not like a consumer class action like blogtoolkit that I'm considering joining.
Thanks,
Tamar
~~~~~~~~
[log in to unmask]
http://www.zazzle.com/TamarMag*
www.cafepress.com/tamarmag
Retired Commissioner, Oakland, MCPD
Date: Fri, 19 Feb 2010 11:24:49 -0800
From: Linda Walker <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: Abuse?
I am not an attorney and this should not be construed as legal
advice because it is not. I do not give legal advice. I work in this
aspect of civil law and usually what happens is there are many
individual suits and then if enough of them add up with good results
(high monetary damages) they may consider a class action but I think
and this should be checked out more by people interested in this....
I think there would have to be a deep pocket entity like the Catholic
or LDS Church to sue ad these cases cost a fortune to bring. And even
with all those church abuse suits with many plaintiffs they usually
do not go class action. I think it would have to be something like a
school taught the therapists to harm the children in some way and
that many suffered as a result. If one therapist is particularly bad
isn't there a place to report them for violation of their license.
Robert may know much more about this than I do but class action is
usually not done because of the costs. First thing civil attorneys
usually look at. In many states there is NO statute of limitation on
sexual abuse so I would focus on that but that is state by state and
in many states there is no possibility of recovery. Even though I
agree that emotional and physical is just as damaging the courts do
not look at it the same way yet. Still much work to be done to change
the law in this field.
One important aspect of this is that the entity knew and did nothing.
In our cases the church promoted and moved the abusers. If the entity
took action once they found out then there is usually no case.
Unfortunately for the church victims the churches took steps to cover
it up. I can imagine a scenario where a big entity had 1000
therapists working and chose to move the therapist to a different
location if they were reported rather than removing them but I doubt
this is how it happened. All the therapists we used for Case were
sort of in their own practice but one was at a hospital. Class action
seems a stretch to me. Just my opinion though. There is recovery from
malpractice insurance and that may be a better way to go.
Other than that gathering stories and publicizing the results would be good.
I still read the list sporadically but don't contribute much. I love
this list though and welcome to the newcomers.
All the best to you guys,
Linda
Case's nana.
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