my fault with it is that it is absolute. it is no more immoral than lying
or any of the other immoral acts that we do. i think one of the greatest
wrongs done by the pro life people is that they fail to love the others.
there is toooooo much anger and not enough compassion. if i could just get
that accross. we should "tell the truth IN LOVE".
i feel that i do not shoot the dr. i should be sitting at a table with him
and a couple cups of coffee, showing him his error and that would be soooo
much more effective. i don't feel that would compromise my morals.
-----Original Message-----
From: Kyle E. Cleveland [mailto:[log in to unmask]]
Sent: Monday, September 13, 1999 1:40 PM
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Re: The Abortion/Euthanasia Thread (Long!)
Ah, true, but these people (the protesters) do not apply a cultural
(governmental) grid against the abortionists, but a spiritual grid. If the
abortionists do not recognize the moral authority, or even the existence, of
a morally-perfect God, then what good does it do to protest abortion on the
pretext that it is immoral?
-----Original Message-----
From: St. John's University Cerebral Palsy List
[mailto:[log in to unmask]]On Behalf Of Barber, Kenneth L.
Sent: Monday, September 13, 1999 1:18 PM
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Re: The Abortion/Euthanasia Thread (Long!)
in christianity all sin is sin and takes one out of fellowship with god.
the punishishment being the same (if unforgiven).
the consequences of the sin are not so much the same. some sins hurts only
the sinner, others have victims. some can be readily remedied and taken care
of. others are more absolute. murder therefore to the government carries
more weight than walking on the grass at a park. both may be against the law
and morally wrong to break that law. the consequences are a world of
differences.
-----Original Message-----
From: Kyle E. Cleveland [mailto:[log in to unmask]]
Sent: Monday, September 13, 1999 1:14 PM
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Re: The Abortion/Euthanasia Thread (Long!)
That would be great, Joy.
Regarding the abortion issue, I wonder how many of us CPers would be here
today, living (hopefully) productive lives had our parents chosen to opt out
of the birth? Having said that, I cringe with embarassment every time a
"fundamentalist" _________ (fill in the blank) rails against abortion
clinics, and applauds when one is blown up or a physician is murdered. Do I
feel that killing an unborn child is wrong. Well, yes. In the same sense
that driving 65 in a 55 zone is wrong. Both are in conflict with a moral
absolute. How dare these people say that one point of their moral code is
higher than another.
Some say, "Well, we can delineate moral relativity by the precept of,
'everything is permissible if I do no harm to myself or others'". That's
well and good, but who defines "harm"? The individual performing the deed
in question? So one judges the quality of ones own character by their own
measuring stick? How I tire of the line, "I didn't rob, kill or rape
anyone. Therefore, I must be "better" that person x."
However, to single out abortion as a sin of greater insult to society is
like taking the car keys away from an unreformed alcoholic. Sure, they may
not crash their car, but what about the real issue--the alcoholism.
Abortion is but one symptom of an unhealthy society where "self" is greater
than "other". When was the last time you heard anyone teaching about the
benefits of creating esteem in others over "self-esteem" (the mantra of US
public education)?
Since it's usually Christendom that's associated with the anti-abortion
rhetoric, let me make a salient point to those of us who profess faith in
Christ. I write this with the realization that to those who are not
followers of this faith, this will make no sense at all: If we all
recognize that if we break one point of the "law" we are convicted by the
"whole law", of what purpose does it serve to rail against one violation of
the law? Should we not be explaining the idea of Grace and the victory over
the "law" that it provides? It is not our place to change this world as
it's already been handed over to another. Our place is to be "salt and
light". Those who would burn the clinics and demonstrate with placards of
aborted feti seem to have forgotten Christ's final instructions to his
disciples.
-Kyle
Like Ken, I must give the usual disclaimers that the statements made here
reflect my own and not necessarily those of my employer.
-----Original Message-----
From: St. John's University Cerebral Palsy List
[mailto:[log in to unmask]]On Behalf Of - Joy -
Sent: Monday, September 13, 1999 12:08 PM
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Re: The Abortion/Euthanasia Thread (Long!)
I read them in Hebrew or Aramaic, depending on what the text was written
in, so no worries about translation <grins> And I'm working on the
reference, I have to dig out my notes from last year's classes. The
curriculum for the year was moral issues, and we ended up discussing
abortion, euthanasia, hostages, war, organ donation, bioengineering...
very interesting stuff. It really helped to firm up some of my
convictions.
"Barber, Kenneth L." wrote:
> maybe they lost something
> in translation from hebrew to english.
Kyle wrote:
> Can you
> give a Talmudic reference?
--
~Joy~
[log in to unmask]
http://www.geocities.com/Athens/Atlantis/5778
http://www.geocities.com/Soho/Exhibit/8689
"Never underestimate the power of stupid people in large groups."
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