Yes, kat, the brits not thinking it good is a sign that it is not something
to just do without some serious thought.

Actually with the whole coalition thing in 1991 the brits were the main ones
with forces there with ours.

I hope our leaders take a long hard look at it before moving. There needs to
be strong evidence of nucks or something before acting.

I hope, though, that if they restrain themselves and something does happens,
then that everyone remembers advising restraint.

-----Original Message-----
From: Cleveland, Kyle E. [mailto:[log in to unmask]]
Sent: Monday, September 02, 2002 8:07 PM
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Re: Can't stand it anymore....

Kat,

I think the folks in the Bush administration who are beating the war drums
(Cheney, Rice, et al) are on thin ice, logically.  I don't think US
unilateral action against Sadaam can/will stand the test of history.  Let's
face it:  Great Britain has stood shoulder to shoulder with us in every
conflict since WWII (yes, even Australia had combat forces in South
Vietnam).  If the British find the prospect unsavoury (as Deri suggested),
even more's the reason to think long and hard about another Gulf operation.
Can we do it militarily?  No problem?  Is it worth it...yet?  Don't think
so.

My tuppence.

-Kyle
-----Original Message-----
From: Salkin Kathleen
To: [log in to unmask]
Sent: 9/2/02 7:15 PM
Subject: Re: Can't stand it anymore....

You thinking ice here or are they on thin ice?  (I agree with the
latter).

Kat

----- Original Message -----
From: "Cleveland, Kyle E." <[log in to unmask]>
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.c-palsy
To: <[log in to unmask]>
Sent: Monday, September 02, 2002 10:51 AM
Subject: Re: Can't stand it anymore....


> William Raspberry had an interesting Op/Ed in today's Washington Post.
He
> postulated, albeit slightly tongue-in-cheek, that the saber-rattling
is
just
> that: something to make Sadaam think about the implications of a
unilateral
> U.S. action.  Read it (for free) at:
>
http://www.dispatch.com/editorials-story.php?story=dispatch/news/editori
als0
> 2/sep02/1459397.html
>
> I think Raspberry makes the point well that the adminisration has to
come
up
> with a better rationale for attack.  They're on think ice, logically,
at
the
> moment.
>
> -Kyle
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Barber, Kenneth L.
> To: [log in to unmask]
> Sent: 8/29/02 9:58 PM
> Subject: Re: Can't stand it anymore....
>
>  i can't disagree. there will be changes if saddam falls, from us or
> from
> within. and i'll say this, noi matter how well intended mr bush might
> be,
> the changes may very well be different from what he expects. may be
> different that what others expect. it will be unpredictable. i want
him
> to
> be careful what ever he does. i pray that if we do something or
refrain
> from
> doing something, that it will be right for our country first and then
> right
> for the rest of the innocent people of the world.
> i'll interject here that saddam is a dictator, but, then so are the
> leaders
> of most of the mid east countrys including our buddies in the house of
> Sauld. the common people don't get any of that oil money.
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Salkin Kathleen
> To: [log in to unmask]
> Sent: 8/29/2002 10:02 PM
> Subject: Re: Can't stand it anymore....
>
> Well, I can see your point, but Sadaam isn't going on a conquest here,
> taking over other countries.  If what I've heard is right, he's having
> enough problems keeping a hold of his own.  When he dies,  so will his
> regime, as is usually the case with dictators.
>
> True, we don't have to go with the world at large, but we cannot
afford
> to
> stand alone, in my opinion, especially as the economy becomes more
> global
> and what one country does will affect others.
>
> I don't have any answers, either, and like you, I'm just a lowly peon
> (used
> to be a civil servant as a matter of fact). but can tell you from my
> Anthropological studies that when cultures change,  the repercussions
> are
> overwhelming and so eventually affects more than just the culture
> itself.
> Same thing with everything else that changes in life.  We need to be
> very
> very careful and consider the consequences globally.
>
> Kat
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Barber, Kenneth L." <[log in to unmask]>
> Newsgroups: bit.listserv.c-palsy
> To: <[log in to unmask]>
> Sent: Thursday, August 29, 2002 9:26 PM
> Subject: Re: Can't stand it anymore....
>
>
> > you have allready saw that i do not know what the answer is, but, if
> we
> are
> > wrong, it does not matter that we had the worlds backing. if we are
> right,
> > it does not matter that we do not have the worlds backing. failire
to
> act
> in
> > the past allowed hitler to kill 6 million people. i do not know what
> the
> > right answer is, but world backing does not decide what the right
> answer
> is.
> >
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: Trisha Cummings
> > To: [log in to unmask]
> > Sent: 8/29/2002 3:49 PM
> > Subject: Re: Can't stand it anymore....
> >
> > Hi Kat,
> >
> >    I agree with you. Frankly since we don't have the world's backing
-
> > this
> > makes us a Rogue nation and we tend to take a hardline with those -
as
> > long
> > as its not us. I may be way off base but it could well trigger
> something
> > much bigger and nastier than we truly want. My Dad - long time
> military
> > guy
> > - is against it also -
> >
> >                                           Trisha
> >
> >
> > > OK, I may not get many people happy with me for saying this, but I
> > don't
> > > think
> > > it's the smartest move, making a move on Iraq without Sadaam
moving
> > first.
> > > We
> > > ended the war in the Persian Gulf back in 1991 and to go back
there
> > now,
> > > 10
> > > years later and strike at them without provocation is not terribly
> > smart,
> > > in
> > > my opinion.  I'd be very surprised if we weren't called into the
> World
> > > Court
> > > at The Hague and not charged with war crimes for it.
> > >
> > > To the rest of the world it's irrelevent whether Bush I finished
the
> > job
> > > or
> > > not.
> > >
> > > Kat
> > >
> > > On Thu, 29 Aug 2002 15:29:20 EDT "BG Greer, PhD"
> <[log in to unmask]>
> > > wrote:
> > >
> > > >     Yeah. I believe that George II feels if he
> > > > can't get Osama, he'll finish
> > > > what George
> > > > I did not. Seems like we will really piss the
> > > > Muslim world off more than we
> > > > have already. That is not bad in itself, but we
> > > > will not stick around to
> > > > finish the job.
> > > >
> > > > Bobby
> > > > >Yes, it does. I appreciate kyle letting us
> > > > know.
> > > > >I need to call my brother to see if the
> > > > reserves are getting ready for
> > > > >more
> > > > >call ups. Of course many time he can't tell
> > > > me.
> > > > >
> > > >